@GeneralDisarray Game History
Round: 1 Bid Purchase - Germans Germans buy 1 artillery and 1 submarine; 0 PU unused Bid Placement - Germans 1 submarine placed in 120 Sea Zone 1 artillery placed in Holland Belgium Purchase Units - Germans Germans buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Trigger Germans 6 Atlantic Wall Broken Switch: Setting switch to false for conditionAttachment_Germans_6_Atlantic_Wall_Possible_Switch attached to Germans Combat Move - Germans 2 submarines moved from 120 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 106 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 111 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 121 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 127 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone 1 battleship moved from 116 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Norway to 114 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 113 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from Western Germany to 113 Sea Zone 3 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 113 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 113 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to Normandy Bordeaux 1 armour moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux 2 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to France 3 armour and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Austria to France 2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Austria to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Romania to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 2 infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia 1 armour moved from Poland to Yugoslavia 1 fighter moved from Poland to Yugoslavia 1 artillery moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux 2 armour, 2 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France Combat - Germans Battle in 109 Sea Zone Germans attack with 2 submarines British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport British win with 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is -4 Casualties for Germans: 2 submarines Casualties for British: 1 destroyer Battle in 113 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 bomber, 3 fighters, 2 submarines and 3 tactical_bombers British defend with 1 battleship and 1 cruiser; French defend with 1 cruiser Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Germans win with 1 bomber, 3 fighters, 1 submarine and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 34 Casualties for French: 1 cruiser Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine Casualties for British: 1 battleship and 1 cruiser Battle in 114 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Germans win with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 37 Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer Battle in Yugoslavia Germans attack with 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 9 infantry Neutral_Allies defend with 5 infantry Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Neutral_Allies with 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 8 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 12 Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Casualties for Neutral_Allies: 5 infantry Battle in Normandy Bordeaux Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber French defend with 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry Germans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from French with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for French: 1 artillery and 1 infantry Battle in France Germans attack with 5 armour, 3 artilleries, 6 infantry and 5 mech_infantrys British defend with 1 armour and 1 artillery; French defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Germans captures 19PUs while taking French capital Germans converts factory_major into different units Germans win, taking France from French with 5 armour, 2 artilleries and 5 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 31 Casualties for Germans: 1 artillery and 6 infantry Casualties for French: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Casualties for British: 1 armour and 1 artillery Trigger Germans Conquer France: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachment_French_1_Liberation_Switch attached to French triggerFrenchDestroyPUsGermans: Setting destroysPUs to true for playerAttachment attached to French Non Combat Move - Germans 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from 113 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 tactical_bomber moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from 114 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 tactical_bomber moved from Normandy Bordeaux to Western Germany 1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to France 1 aaGun moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux 2 aaGuns, 3 artilleries and 11 infantry moved from Germany to Poland 1 infantry moved from Romania to Bulgaria Germans take Bulgaria from Neutral_Axis 1 fighter moved from Yugoslavia to Southern Italy 1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland Germans take Finland from Neutral_Axis 1 cruiser and 1 transport moved from 117 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from Norway to Finland 1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to 115 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Denmark to 115 Sea Zone 1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from 115 Sea Zone to Norway 1 infantry moved from Denmark to Western Germany Place Units - Germans 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 transport placed in 115 Sea Zone Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 41 PUs; end with 60 PUs Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 65 PUs Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 70 PUs2015 League General Discussion Thread
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ok thank you guys for the clarification on this rule. it makes sense.
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Can empty transports that participated in combat load in the non-combat phase?
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Actually the situation is more complex than that. I can’t type much right now but as soon as I get the chance I’ll describe unless Adam can do
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i might be missing something but I think the simple answer is “no”.
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I can answer the question after dominion gives us his perspective
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Germany has tps in 110 & 112, U.S. drops dd in both zones (from Norway fac) to prevent them from loading for combat. Ok I get that rule. So to prevent this from happening yet again, and to keep them safe with my navy, I (Germany) moved them into 112 during cm along with my warships, killed the dd, and then during ncm, I loaded up the tps.
I don’t see how this is an issue, since it’s the land units that are moving during their ncm. I get that the tps can’t move, but it shouldn’t prevent the land units from moving (in this case onto the tps).
If I’m wrong on this, then I have to say my tps investment was totally worthless. It’d be an endless loop of US dropping a dd to thwart amphibs, unless I moved navy deeper inside Baltic Sea, which would put it at a seriously inferior position (and easily locked in).
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You’re right that you have to move the transport from 110 during the combat movement phase in order to avoid combat with the destroyer in 110. You moved it to 112, where it is participating in combat with the warships against the destroyer in 112.
Unfortunately for you, you canNOT load a transport after it has participated in combat. It can’t do ANYTHING after that, including load in noncom. I will find chapter and verse for you now… hang on
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Top paragraph of page 16 says a transport must stop when encountering hostile surface warships and conduct combat
Page 22, toward the end, says that transports…can load cargo…unless they unloaded, moved, offloaded, or were involved in combat during the combat move or conduct combat phase
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You have discovered one of the reasons why an Allied complex in Norway is nasty
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If that really is the case, then I honestly don’t want anything to do with A&A anymore. To me that’s a truly ridiculous loophole of a rule that completely turns me off from the game. It completely renders Germany helpless to do anything with those tps without having to accept a totally inferior position, not to mention loss of crucial time.
I have always played it where loading can happen in such a case, as tripleA in this case has more sense the “official” rules.
If it’s gonna be that way, I’m just gonna resign all my games and go find a game without such a game-breaking flaw. Another stupid rule where a lone dd can thwart entire amphib designs. Just dumb.
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Take a deep breath and a day or two off
Like some of the other rules, like what you can do when you send a sub into a fleet with destroyers in non-com, it does go both ways and there are often ways to deal with it.
Maybe you need to work on taking Norway back first. Just trying to help
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Maybe a better idea is simply to houserule the things you don’t like - most opponents would probably agree to houserule this one to play with you.
Don’t forget you don’t have to play by the rulebook in league play - just get your opponent to agree to it - you could even get opponents to agree to this mid-game quite possibly.
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thank you gamer, I do appreciate the clarification on this rule, and the encouragement to work around it.
unfortunately, it’s sort of a chicken and egg situation: i need to be able to load my tps in order to take Norway, but i can’t do that with this rule. if i try a different approach (i.e., go deeper into the pocket to first land in finland, etc.), it’d just be too significant of a delay and loss of position …it’s just not feasible. it’s stupid really.
there are enough little silly rules here and there that get me upset now and then, but I’m usually able to get over them. this one however really takes the cake. it’s bad enough that dropping a dd can prevent an amphib to begin with, but i’m more open to accepting this, and i can see how it can be a great delay tactic. but to be able to do this over and over again so long as the tps remain in those zones is aweful. i have to say it’s highest on my deal-breaking rules.
later this evening when i have some time, i will post my resignation of all my current games and take a break from A&A for some time.
only way i’ll consider playing again is without this rule where loading is also blocked. but i’m not gonna ask my opponents for this mod while in the middle of the game. it’s something that should be agreed upon before starting a game.
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thank you gamer, I do appreciate the clarification on this rule, and the encouragement to work around it.
unfortunately, it’s sort of a chicken and egg situation: i need to be able to load my tps in order to take Norway, but i can’t do that with this rule. if i try a different approach (i.e., go deeper into the pocket to first land in finland, etc.), it’d just be too significant of a delay and loss of position …it’s just not feasible. it’s stupid really.
there are enough little silly rules here and there that get me upset now and then, but I’m usually able to get over them. this one however really takes the cake. it’s bad enough that dropping a dd can prevent an amphib to begin with, but i’m more open to accepting this, and i can see how it can be a great delay tactic. but to be able to do this over and over again so long as the tps remain in those zones is aweful. i have to say it’s highest on my deal-breaking rules.
later this evening when i have some time, i will post my resignation of all my current games and take a break from A&A for some time.
only way i’ll consider playing again is without this rule where loading is also blocked. but i’m not gonna ask my opponents for this mod while in the middle of the game. it’s something that should be agreed upon before starting a game.
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Sure, and any time - I understand there are probably various other factors that go into your wanting to take a break
You’ve played a lot of games this year!
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no, i’m not burned out. this time it’s not the case as it was last time. i’m still very eager to play and LOVE the game, but not with such a rule. it just ruins the experience for me.
in my game with adam, i ended up buying 4 tps as a surprise move to exploit a vulnerable atlantic after he left it and sailed deep into the med to thwart japanese aggression in africa. it’s a perfectly good counter-strategy, but such a rule allows for a VERY CHEAP stop to the plans. a good game shouldn’t allow cheap moves like that. not the fault of my opponent of course, as he’s top notch and leveraging the rules to max his advantage. just really upset and sad that the rule makers would know of such a loophole and not put out a fix.
Sure, and any time - I understand there are probably various other factors that go into your wanting to take a break
You’ve played a lot of games this year!
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Take a deep breath and a day or two off
Like some of the other rules, like what you can do when you send a sub into a fleet with destroyers in non-com, it does go both ways and there are often ways to deal with it.
Maybe you need to work on taking Norway back first. Just trying to help
Wait, subs can move into enemy fleets with destroyers in noncombat?
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Honestly I wasn’t sure about the rule, which is why I brought my fleet back around just in time to have the possibility of sacrificing loaded tps to protect UK. If I knew about the rule I would definitely have told you when you bought fleet that it would be pretty much impossible to use it against UK and that it would take a while to be able to threaten Norway with it. I’ll be fine with continuing this game allowing the loading, but I don’t see how you can block this loophole unless transports are considered like air units (can move in both phases), and that might open up many other problems.
The possibilities allowed by the Norway fac just makes Norway a bit more valuable. I personally don’t think this loophole is a big deal if both players know about it. And the blocking isn’t cheap, it’s 16 a turn and can go up to 24 if Germany has units in Normandy or Holland.
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Class act, and very well said
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Take a deep breath and a day or two off
Like some of the other rules, like what you can do when you send a sub into a fleet with destroyers in non-com, it does go both ways and there are often ways to deal with it.
Maybe you need to work on taking Norway back first. Just trying to help
Wait, subs can move into enemy fleets with destroyers in noncombat?
Yes, this kind of rocked the boat when Krieghund dropped this bomb on us
The big implication is that you can send subs into an enemy fleet that has destroyers in it, and force the opponent to choose between sinking the subs, or ignoring them and operating the transports as normal. If they sink the subs, then it is impossible for the transports in the fleet to pick up units and move them in non-com.Can be effective, but often means throwing away subs…. The attacked player can still load transports and move them if they are doing an amphibious assault, and of course the attacked player can always ignore the subs - just have to endure some convoy dice. But then the subs are in a forward position… it’s within the rules, and best to know about this one and not get blind-sided!!
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