2015 League General Discussion Thread

@axis-dominion:

ok, new house rule in effect for any league game i play going forward:

*fighter planes in a territory with a major factory and airbase will intercept at 2
*escorting fighters also attack at 2 in this particular SBR

cyanight is proving without any doubt how inadequate the current intercepting rules are…he’ll go in with like 10 total against say 13 or 15 of my interceptors and still come out ahead, way ahead…we’ll each kill off a plane or two, and then he’ll demolish my economy…how realistic is that?? with overwhelming air defense, how can bombers be so damn effective, and WW2 bombers at that? no way

probably more needs to be done, but i wanna start out with a small change and then go from there.

I’m working on a summary thread which bring some comparison about the odds of various OOB SBR (Triple A, G40.2, 1942.2).
A few quotes leads to some discussion about this issue on the Fighter defending @1 in the Triple A and G40.2 SBR.
Which I believe is the specific issue on SBR balance.
For an optimized play (there are calculations which prove it), StBs never need to bring any Fgs escort.
Just throw all StBs only in the raid, after all, they have the same attack value than escorting Fighter and can defending Fg are no better.

I even made a suggestion to use the 1942.2 SBR instead but keeping Strat Bombers with D6+2 damage.

Gentlemen, 2 questions on neutrals:

1. I am reading the rulebook, and it seems that an unfriendly or strict neutral attacked and not conquered (attacker defeated) is considered enemy and not unfriendly or strict neutral anymore (meaning in example that all powers can then fly over them in NCM). Am I understanding correctly? rulebook redaction is not fully clear to me.

2. The rulebook does not especify from which moment powers can fly over one of these neutral territories attacked (in both situations, conquering it or not). If I apply the logic, I believe: The power attacking the neutral, cannot fly over it in NCM, except to land attacking planes to the same neutral territory if those exist. Then, the following powers (Allied or not) can fly over it in NCM with no restrictions. In example:
   2)1) USA cannot attack Afganistan with a mech, and then move fighters from Moscow to India in NCM unless those planes also attacked Afganistan.
   2)2) USA can attack Afganistan with a mech, and then regarless the territory was conquered or not by USA, UK can move fighters in NCM from Moscow to India (flying over Afganistan).

Are the examples correct?

Thank you

Juan

as soon as you declare war on the neutrals, they become the enemy, and like any enemy territory, you are immediately free to fly over it even in combat movement.

@JuanSpain:

Gentlemen, 2 questions on neutrals:

1. I am reading the rulebook, and it seems that an unfriendly or strict neutral attacked and not conquered (attacker defeated) is considered enemy and not unfriendly or strict neutral anymore (meaning in example that all powers can then fly over them in NCM). Am I understanding correctly? rulebook redaction is not fully clear to me.

2. The rulebook does not especify from which moment powers can fly over one of these neutral territories attacked (in both situations, conquering it or not). If I apply the logic, I believe: The power attacking the neutral, cannot fly over it in NCM, except to land attacking planes to the same neutral territory if those exist. Then, the following powers (Allied or not) can fly over it in NCM with no restrictions. In example:
   2)1) USA cannot attack Afganistan with a mech, and then move fighters from Moscow to India in NCM unless those planes also attacked Afganistan.
   2)2) USA can attack Afganistan with a mech, and then regarless the territory was conquered or not by USA, UK can move fighters in NCM from Moscow to India (flying over Afganistan).

Are the examples correct?

Thank you

Juan

@axis-dominion:

as soon as you declare war on the neutrals, they become the enemy, and like any enemy territory, you are immediately free to fly over it even in combat movement.

@JuanSpain:

Gentlemen, 2 questions on neutrals:

1. I am reading the rulebook, and it seems that an unfriendly or strict neutral attacked and not conquered (attacker defeated) is considered enemy and not unfriendly or strict neutral anymore (meaning in example that all powers can then fly over them in NCM). Am I understanding correctly? rulebook redaction is not fully clear to me.

2. The rulebook does not especify from which moment powers can fly over one of these neutral territories attacked (in both situations, conquering it or not). If I apply the logic, I believe: The power attacking the neutral, cannot fly over it in NCM, except to land attacking planes to the same neutral territory if those exist. Then, the following powers (Allied or not) can fly over it in NCM with no restrictions. In example:
   2)1) USA cannot attack Afganistan with a mech, and then move fighters from Moscow to India in NCM unless those planes also attacked Afganistan.
   2)2) USA can attack Afganistan with a mech, and then regarless the territory was conquered or not by USA, UK can move fighters in NCM from Moscow to India (flying over Afganistan).

Are the examples correct?

Thank you

Juan

Not correct axis.  I thought juan already asked this recently and it was answered.  Gamer can set the record straight.

yah but i like my rule better. it’s simpler, and it helps the allies, which need whatever help they can get

@Boldfresh:

@axis-dominion:

as soon as you declare war on the neutrals, they become the enemy, and like any enemy territory, you are immediately free to fly over it even in combat movement.

@JuanSpain:

Gentlemen, 2 questions on neutrals:

1. I am reading the rulebook, and it seems that an unfriendly or strict neutral attacked and not conquered (attacker defeated) is considered enemy and not unfriendly or strict neutral anymore (meaning in example that all powers can then fly over them in NCM). Am I understanding correctly? rulebook redaction is not fully clear to me.

2. The rulebook does not especify from which moment powers can fly over one of these neutral territories attacked (in both situations, conquering it or not). If I apply the logic, I believe: The power attacking the neutral, cannot fly over it in NCM, except to land attacking planes to the same neutral territory if those exist. Then, the following powers (Allied or not) can fly over it in NCM with no restrictions. In example:
   2)1) USA cannot attack Afganistan with a mech, and then move fighters from Moscow to India in NCM unless those planes also attacked Afganistan.
   2)2) USA can attack Afganistan with a mech, and then regarless the territory was conquered or not by USA, UK can move fighters in NCM from Moscow to India (flying over Afganistan).

Are the examples correct?

Thank you

Juan

Not correct axis.  I thought juan already asked this recently and it was answered.  Gamer can set the record straight.

the real rule is that you cannot fly over a neutral territory (whether friendly, unfriendly, or strict). if your planes attacked a neutral, then of course they are free to move to whatever friendly territory during ncm in order to land. once a neutral territory is controlled by a power, then the rules of neutrality no longer apply, and planes can fly over it during cm or ncm.

@Boldfresh:

@axis-dominion:

as soon as you declare war on the neutrals, they become the enemy, and like any enemy territory, you are immediately free to fly over it even in combat movement.

@JuanSpain:

Gentlemen, 2 questions on neutrals:

1. I am reading the rulebook, and it seems that an unfriendly or strict neutral attacked and not conquered (attacker defeated) is considered enemy and not unfriendly or strict neutral anymore (meaning in example that all powers can then fly over them in NCM). Am I understanding correctly? rulebook redaction is not fully clear to me.

2. The rulebook does not especify from which moment powers can fly over one of these neutral territories attacked (in both situations, conquering it or not). If I apply the logic, I believe: The power attacking the neutral, cannot fly over it in NCM, except to land attacking planes to the same neutral territory if those exist. Then, the following powers (Allied or not) can fly over it in NCM with no restrictions. In example:
   2)1) USA cannot attack Afganistan with a mech, and then move fighters from Moscow to India in NCM unless those planes also attacked Afganistan.
   2)2) USA can attack Afganistan with a mech, and then regarless the territory was conquered or not by USA, UK can move fighters in NCM from Moscow to India (flying over Afganistan).

Are the examples correct?

Thank you

Juan

Not correct axis.  I thought juan already asked this recently and it was answered.  Gamer can set the record straight.

Thank you Axis, I read that rule in the rulebook, however my 2 questions are not yet answered, they are a bit more specific on the precise moment in which things can happen, and also referring to attacked but not controlled neutrals.

I don´t think we went to this detail in my previous question that Gamer answered Bold.

Thank you!

You can fly over a territory in the noncombat movement phase of the turn that you attacked it in the combat movement phase.
So USA can attack Afghanistan with a single unit, then fly air over Afghanistan during the non-combat movement phase.  Afghanistan is no longer a neutral once the combat movement/combat phases are complete - it has joined the Axis.  Therefore USA planes can fly over Afghanistan in the non-combat movement phase just like any other non-neutral territory.

Ok Gamer, I had doubts because planes cannot land in NCM in territories conquered in Combat phase by the same power, and I assumed this had to do with not using Combat info for the NCM plans (just for planes and not for land units), but this is a different situation then.

Many thanks for the clarification!! It is much appreciatted like always.

Juan

i have a rule question:

if a land unit is aboard an allied transport (e.g., russian tank loaded on a UK transport), and it tries to unload onto a territory with fighters scrambling, will the scrambling have any effect? Seems to me they should be able to scramble and thwart the attack, but TripleA isn’t doing anything with the scramble. I mean, it allows the scrambling, but then it doesn’t have any effect and the tank happily unloads to attack (in this case takes an Italian island). someone please clarify the rule on this.

Euh I thought triplea just killed the tp, but scrambling does of course block an undefended tp from unloading ;)

Read somewhere though that if the allied tp is undefended it’s illegal to unload into a zone than can scramble…

@Adam514:

Euh I thought triplea just killed the tp, but scrambling does of course block an undefended tp from unloading ;)

ok then triplea has it wrong…i will buy an airbase to block your stinking tank from converting more of my people to communism lol

On another note, if India and West India are in Axis hands and an Allied power conquers West India, should that nation take control of West India and get the income? Does the same thing apply to UK conquering West India?

Triple a allows US to take control of West India, but if UK takes control of it the production doesn’t go to UK Euro side and stays on the Pac side.

Scrambling would stop you from unloading from an ally’s transport, unless you have your own air and/or naval power in the zone in the combat move to attack any air that could be scrambled.

Scrambling alone does stop unloading from an ally’s transport if you have no such air/naval power, yes.  Triple A is wrong about a lot of things - see my list. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cS3hFwoBP0rWr3208jw1LAtCvHYa9Ji9uU8PwbCMIwM/edit
The issue you are referring to is item 16f on my list

Most of the items on my list have been added to the Triple A game notes by the developer.

West India belongs to India just like Malaya, Borneo, and Hong Kong, so UK cannot take control of West India when India is down.  Any other Allied power may, however.  From what you are saying, Triple A would be right on the West India control issue.

excellent, thank you gamer!

@Gamerman01:

Scrambling would stop you from unloading from an ally’s transport, unless you have your own air and/or naval power in the zone in the combat move to attack any air that could be scrambled.

Scrambling alone does stop unloading from an ally’s transport if you have no such air/naval power, yes.  Triple A is wrong about a lot of things - see my list. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cS3hFwoBP0rWr3208jw1LAtCvHYa9Ji9uU8PwbCMIwM/edit
The issue you are referring to is item 16f on my list

Most of the items on my list have been added to the Triple A game notes by the developer.

West India belongs to India just like Malaya, Borneo, and Hong Kong, so UK cannot take control of West India when India is down.  Any other Allied power may, however.  From what you are saying, Triple A would be right on the West India control issue.

Would an allied bid that includes an airfield in java be legal?

According to the default bidding rules, it wouldn’t, since the allies don’t already have a unit there.

But I think pretty much anything is allowed if you clear it with your opponent first (i.e. before the bidding starts), and I don’t see any reason why this would be an exception.

That’s right - the “rules”, or default settings are not restrictive - just meant to be helpful.

Make sure your opponent agrees with you on your bidding parameters beforehand - if he does, pretty much anything goes

@Gamerman01:

That’s right - the “rules”, or default settings are not restrictive - just meant to be helpful.

Make sure your opponent agrees with you on your bidding parameters beforehand - if he does, pretty much anything goes

Is the nuclear warfare upgrade allowed :P?