MOVED: Axis and Allies officially FIRED (for me anyway)

@squirecam @argothair @Arthur-Bomber-Harris

Howdy friends, been a while.

The OP seems to finally have found the unlock–there is indeed a way for the allies to win! Fancy that…it only took us a decade.

Those, including myself, who argue that the game is imbalanced can attempt to find innumerable workarounds (being forced to play both teams, bidding, reverse bidding, modding etc.) A static and unchanging game with a fixed setup will always have critical paths and good better best moves at each juncture.

J1JDOW is a good move. It leaves Japan weaker against the USA though, and allows the early usa cross that stops the gibraltar block.

In BBR, there is no reason at all IMO to declare war early because it gives the allies bonuses–so tweaking other aspects of the game will affect which strategy is optimal and when it is optimal.

At this point, I think the G40 META is to wait for war to keep the USA contained. That changes because our discussions and opinions keep changing. That’s why we keep working on them.

G42 has no diplomacy, and while the diplomacy was novel and rich when it was introduced, I would favor removing it from all 1 day formats (mods and tournments). Its too easy to game conditions that place articfical limits on the allies movements, the allies are already weaker and more constrained in the early/short game, and it makes the game much slower as you spend 3 hours buidling up and then 3 hours fighting. I’d favor just dumping it and reducing USA income or making its NO easier to interfere with.

G42 is a timed game, I will likely see you all in person at Gencon or another travel tournament later this year. It does require that you build ships with Germany to complete the opener. BBR uses team time and chess clocks, but its not necessary in G42Gencon because those of us who play that tourney are pretty focused on the game and come with a full game plan and contingencies in mind.

As far as ABHs point–I don’t like computer aids. They are an unfair crutch. However, our in-the-head or thumbnail glance odds calculations are often totally incorrect and as intuitions, must be taken as such. I do not rely on either calculators OR my intuitions.

If there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that for allies there are no half measures…

At least playing against equal or stronger opponents

In any case, Japan must be crushed (above all) as well as Italy.

If you aim for a KGF and let Japan rage in the Pacific there is always the risk that with a coup they will be able to take the 6 VC and the game is over… even if the Allies are close to taking Rome or Berlin

Of course if you only tighten up on the Pacific perhaps also using the Russians (right @MrRoboto? :))… you have to be very organized in Europe to avoid Hitler arriving in Cairo (or London)…

Very expert players are able to do this of course… but in my opinion there is always a percentage of risk that the game predicts (like all clashes on A&A) but which you can try to avoid.

And above all the Allies should fight in a more aggressive way (which I have not yet learned to do) but not recklessly… aggressive in the sense of making the Axis risk more than necessary in certain battles (land and naval) because otherwise the the outcome is almost always for the Central Powers of the board.

@Young:

I don’t mean to derail the topic, I just want some opinions about my own house rule NOs for G40 balance… please PM me with any comments about the following NOs so that we can keep this thread about Balance Mod.

Thanks.

New & Modified National Objectives

Germany (in addition to all original NOs)
-5 IPCs if an Axis power controls London

Soviet Union (2 NOs which will replace the original National Prestige NO)
-5 IPCs if there are no Axis warships in sea zone #125, and the Allies control Archangel as well as London
-5 IPCs if there are no Allied units on any original Russian territories

Japan (in addition to all original NOs)
-5 IPCs if Japan controls all original Chinese territories

United States (in addition to all original NOs)
-5 IPCs if the United States are at war with the Axis powers

UK Europe (in addition to all original NOs)

5 IPCs if there are no German submarines anywhere on the board other than in the Baltic Sea (sea zones 113-115), the Black Sea (100), and the Caspian Sea (unnumbered)

ANZAC (in addition to all original NOs)
-5 IPCs if the Allies control Cairo (when at war with Germany/Italy)

Grasshopper, Germany already gets +5 for controlling UK in Balance Mod (its “+5 if Axis control EITHER UK or Egypt” now)

@WILD:

Ok, so you want to attack the 3 most important neutrals as axis at roughly the same time early in the game for strategic/econ purposes, maintain pressure on Russia, and keep the Anglo’s off your newly acquired territories. Pretty big task lol

What do you want the UK to do on the first couple turns? When do you want to bring the US into the war? You want to set-up and do Barbarossa to keep things looking normal and get to Moscow (axis goal). Should you set-up to hit the neutrals G2, or G3?
4a) Take Turkey to give the axis access to the Middle East and Southern Russia (income/strategic value).
4b) Hit Sweden for more income (easy enough), and probably Switz so the allies don’t ever get 2 free inf.
4c) Take Spain and set-up some kind of def/counter attack (or naval attack), because this is where you are going to be most vulnerable.

1 (UK) - You want the UK to build mostly inf UK1 (no IC in Egypt), so maybe buy 1 ship G1 to lightly threaten Sea Lion, or save most of your income? Sounds crazy, but you probably want the UK to do Taronto so you can kill the Med fleet leaving the UK fewer resources at their disposal to threaten Spain and Turkey.

2 (USA) - Have two choices, both have pro’s and con’s.
a) Leave USA out of the war until they come in on their own and cant preform attacks until US4 (may even entice the UK to attack Japan so the UK tie’s up more resources in the Pac still leaving the US out in the cold?) This will give the Euro axis some time, but the allies will be much stronger when they do come over and could build mostly Europe from the start

b) Hit US navy hard G1/J1. G1 attack sz101 w/German sub to try and kill cruiser/tpt. J1 hit both the Phil (fleet and island), and destroy US Hawaiian fleet (making sure the main Japanese fleet at Wake is safe from counter attack). Also hitting Britt BB etc… again leaving UK w/fewer resources. This sounds strange bringing the US into the war on the first turn when planning for an axis neutral invasion, but the US will be hard pressed to build in the Atlantic because of Japanese aggression. If they build Pac for the first couple turns in response, then you won’t have US ships sitting in sz101 able to hit Spain for a few turns (easier to def for the short term anyway).

I’m assuming you will still set-up and invade Russia G2 (or G3) because you don’t want to tip off the allies, and still need to take Moscow.

When to attack the neutrals G2/G3 or It2? Depends on if you have the use of the German air force on G2, and the Luftwaffe will probably be needed to take out the UK Med fleet G2 (more risk to your mechanized units vs those inf stacks w/o air power). Also who takes Turkey or Spain and when? The Italians could take Greece It1, and be ready to invade Turkey It2 (after the Anglo’s take their 2nd turn) and Germany moves in reinforcements G3. On the other hand Italy could take S France It1, and be ready to invade Spain It2 and the Germans could land some ground/air on Spain G3. In this case the Germans activate the Bulgarians G1, takes Greece G2, and invades Turkey G3 (hides intent). Either way I think Italy takes one, and the Germans reinforce it, then and invades the other (along w/Sweden of course). This allows the axis to basically go back to back and disguise it somewhat. Plus if the Germans hit the neutrals G2, the Americans would surly build Europe on US2.

As you described one of the main problem is that if you take Spain you will have yet another coastal territory to defend, and stacking it isn’t really a good option. Setting up a counter attack from Normandy or S France is a risk because again your units are on the coast and the allies could probably hit either of those territories and kill off your units by sea from Gibraltar. Even setting up mechanized units in Paris could be problematic because the allies could cut them off by taking Normandy and S France. Attacking the combined allied fleet would also be costly, and if it fails the axis are doomed if they lose the bulk of their air power.

I’m not advocating that the axis invading the neutrals early is a good strat, but if I were to attempt it think I would try to take out as much US/UK fleet in the first turn as possible (and turn 2), and try to disguise it best I can. Get the US building in the Pac theater the first couple turns would be key, to keep them out of Europe till like US5?. If they have to start from scratch on the Euro side on say US3 (after you take Spain etc…) then you could defend Spain for a couple turns before withdrawing forcing the US build more before coming over (either more ships, or more ground). Put some pressure on the UK so she builds mostly inf on the first turn, and make sure the UK Med fleet can’t interfere or be used to re-take my prizes (on the bottom of the Med would be the best place IMO). I think I would have Italy take either Spain or Turkey on It2 (Germany reinforces G3), then have Germany take the rest on G3. Need to watch what Russia has in the south because you don’t want them to be in position to counter attack your units in Turkey. Don’t think you can afford to delay Barbarossa past G3 though. Japan should also be ready to kill some Mongolians on J3 if they haven’t already activated them (breaking the NAP and turning them Russian).

Look at my Afrika Korps strategy where I answer all your question!

Thanks!

Yep, that’s what we did, we just played another round before calling it.

So I take it you suggest keeping manch kaput and move korea into manch and keep kaput.

guess you doing J3 declare war. but then your transported will get blocked so you can only nab malaya borneo and pinoy. (I guess you can hover over a spot with the transport that starts from japan over sumatra).

but if you leave them there on J1 russia moves west and enters through the backdoor of china, he’ll get to kansu before you.

@Axisplaya:

@theROCmonster:

Possibly even T3 if mistakes were made.

Anything is possible with enough mistakes from one side…

@theROCmonster:

Japs only need Hawaii, hong kong, phillipines, and calcutta. I can see Japan taking all these by T4

I can’t….If Japan can get Hong Kong, Phi, Haw and Ind by T4 when Allies don’t commit huge mistakes, then the game is completely broken.

I’ve not only seen it, I’ve done it.  The game is not completely broken - however.  America just has to keep investing in the Pacific, the allies lose if there is not a HUGE investment by America in the Pacific EARLY.