Neutral Italy

@Ichabod:

@PainState:

A lot of posters seemed stunned at this scenario, never scene it ever happen or even could happen. Now that I mulled it over last night and looked at the rules and so forth it is very obvious to me why no one has ever scene this scenario. Because the scenario makes no logical sense.

Italy DOW on Russia and moves in 2 tanks into Eastern Poland.
Russia is now at war with Italy and can DOW on Germany at the start of their next turn, turn 3.
Germany on Turn 3 does not DOW on Russia and just non combats into Eastern Poland.
Russia at the start of Turn 3 DOW on Germany and off we go.

There is no logical reason why Russia would not DOW on Germany at the start of Turn 3, none.

Heck you could argue that it makes no logical sense that Germany did not DOW on Russia at the start of G3 since Italy brought Russia into the war and Russia WILL DOW on Germany on R3.

Hi PainState,

From my perspective, if I was planning on doing a G3 Barbarossa AND I wanted to drive towards the south, then yes, it makes sense to not DOW. My stack will be together except for the minimum required mobile units and maybe 1 AAA in Poland so Russia doesn’t attack Poland to get their NO for occupying an Axis territory. But E. Poland will be real strong because the German air will be there and maybe bombers will also be in range of a raid on the Moscow factory. Also, 5 IPCs is more income than I’d probably get as Germany on the 1st turn.

There are a few disadvantages of course. 1, Russian blockers can’t be attacked. 2, the Scandinavian units are behind. But for me that’s ok, I just use them to lay siege anyways. I never expect to get Moscow on turn 6 anymore. I assume that the UK/Anzac and that lone French fighter are going to get to Moscow.Â

There are some extraordinary circumstances when Italy should own it such as when Russia is about to fall, and therefore Italy can make better use of the Ukraine factory (for the Middle East).  But in most games Germany should own it because they need to build infantry and artillery there to attack Russia.

@creeping-deth87 Italy needs no help if played correctly.

With some simple house rules attacking the true neutrals does not need to be insane.

In our group we are remove 1 inf in each of the mongolian territories and in angola and mozambique. This makes attacking an European true neutral less devastating for the asian land war and makes it less severe for the Italians. Its also more true to history which is a bonus.

We are also thinking of making Argentina as a pro-axis minor. This would be partly to make south america a possible theatre of operations and also to reduce the extreme impact on the american economy and manpower from attacking a true neutral. Not very true to history but we just regard that as a potential bonus.

I am always tempted to use this strategy with the allies. There is however always one thing which holds me from doing so: the Mongolian forces - if Japan can activate these units, I think this will tip the balance on the pacific board in favor of the Axis.

Nevertheless, It would be a disaster for Germany to defend another border, which is so close to france and the US at the same time…

@kdfsjljklgjfg:

To be fair, I always like to hit NItaly once as Allies in order to knock that complex down to a minor and limit Italian ground troop production.

That is an excellent strategy.  I just recently started using it myself.  My gaming group, myself included, was always stuck with the notion that you didn’t attack a territory, especially an important one with an IC on it, unless you could hold it.  If the enemy takes it right back, we felt you just wasted your troops.  They thought I was crazy when I would take a territory with a Major IC on it but only have a little force left that was easily destroyed.  That is, until they realized that they could no longer produce 10 units.  Then they have to either spend 20 IPCs to restore the major or suffer with only 3 unit builds per turn from then on.  I have gotten away with it for a couple of games now while my opponents still shied away from it so I didn’t get any retribution from them.  I’m sure my next game will change that if they get the chance.

Oh yeah, and isn’t INVADING RUSSIA!!! actually an invasion of a True Neutral country by Germany due to their NON-AGGRESSION PACT they had signed with them in 1939???

HERP.  A.  DERP.

Dumb rule is dumb.

Do You want your German tanks to take France on round 1 and then grab Western Ukraine 5 spaces away by round 3? Then read on.
_* Warning the author of this article and the websites it is on do not claim responsibility for games lost due to following the advise below.

Reader discretion is advised._

Take France, on round 2 attack Yugoslavia with 1 Romanian infantry, 2 other infantry/mechs, and 4 armor in France (sending 5 risks winning). Attack one combat round, retreat to Romania with 4 surviving tanks and maybe a Mech depending on if Yugoslavia hit 2 or 3 times. Then attack W. Ukraine (assumes you declared war round 1 or 2 and captured Bessarabia or E. Poland.

Next:

Can you grab S. France, Greece, Iraq, and Egypt all at the same time on round 2 with Italy (gaining a National Objective) and proceed to Caucasus round 4? I can, see below.

(The allies can stop this with effort and foresight)

I1: attack Yugoslavia for 1 combat round with all N. Italy land units and 1 Albanian infantry, retreat at least 2 artillery and 1 armor to Albania. Move other Albanian infantry into Bulgaria to gain 4 infantry. Transport 1 armor from Albania and 1 South Italy infantry to trans-Jordan (if it is not empty stop reading, I am your opponent). Attack Alexandria with all the Tobruk land units. Move the 1 S. Italy troop and 2 fighters to N. Italy and build 1 artillery and 2 infantry there.

G2: land your W. Germany staged airforce 3 air units (if you built 3 planes G1) to Trans-Jordan after sending the 8 air units staged in North Italy to attack Egypt and land in Trans-Jordan. Maybe send 2 tanks from France into S. France if France placed 2 infantry and 1 artillery there, retreat when you hit once. Only do this if you don’t like attacking 3 units with Italy’s force shown below.

I2: Attack S. France with N. Italy land units and 1 fighter. Attack Greece with Albanian and Bulgarian land units plus a fighter unless you want 2 fighters on S. France. Capture empty Egypt or fight any units built there on UK2 with Alexandra force (move the mechs/tanks to transjordan non combat). Move Transjordan infantry and tank into Iraq. Secure your first National Objective!

G3: Land some air units in Iraq if UK has transports that can hit, Maybe clear Persia of any UK units there and land some air units in Egypt to secure it.

I3: Take N. Persia and move tanks/mech from transjordan into either Syria, Persia, or N. Persia as needed.

G3: Use air force in area to clear Caucasus if heavily defended. Then Italy can handle any reinforcements. Works well if you declared war turn 1 and are in Russia drawing them North.

I4: Take Caucasus with up to 4 infantry 2 armor, 2 Mechs and 2-3 fighters.