Italy Strategy

Subs are amazing units. I argue hacing about 40% of your IPCs in subs as US. Volume is vastly underrated.

I don’t see how the Allies can liberate DC because as I said, if Germany does it, that means it has to destroy Home Fleet to get to DC which means that without US having income, Canada cannot produce enough to counter a full invasion on DC and Germany at this point will have more income than UK with a navy and army to counter.
Well now I see your point if Germany reaches Washington I think the allies should just surrender at that point cause if they keep going the axis will have extra money to get the economy token if playing with grasshoppers tokens.Or with stock rules the axis control Berlin Rome Warsaw Paris Tokyo Shanghai Manila Hong Kong possibilitie London Cairo and Washington and maybe Ottawa

Ok Thanks for feedback,

So as far as German Fleet goes,

T1 Collect fleet in sz 112
T2 Hit Gibraltar (+ remaining subs for ablative wounds)
T3 Hit Frenchies
T4 Start shucking to NW Africa.

This means no BB for sz 110 battle T1, So will send in more planes.

Italian Fleet
T1 Hit Greece
T2 Hit Egypt/Syria or Shuck to Tobruk to reinforce
T3 Merge with German fleet.
T4 Shuck more to Tobruk or wherever

Turn 3-4 Germans/ Italians can start to build up a few more destroyers/Subs etc to protect.

The main idea is that with the majority of early purchases focusing on land units for Russia, the fleets will survive longer in the Med as a combined unit than separate targets. The extra support from the Germans will help to secure Italy’s NOs for longer (Unless UK/USA go all out )

This is just a distraction however while the ITA/GER blitz moves east to secure caucasus /persia. After that the Axis can start mobilising more troops/ships to defend the West.

@AndreasI:

Just some thoughts from someone who hasn’t really done the math nor played enough rounds to actually see this tactic through.

Can US really be at war, at their own initiative, with Germany on turn 3 (Combat/Movement phase?) so they can actually move to Gibraltar at all? Or are there any second edition additional rules that I have missed?

And then on down to the tactics on getting a strong fleet supporting units into Normandy or other mainland european regions:

Am I correct in assuming that Germany loosing it’s entire bomber force against, let’s say, a strong naval presence from US/UK equals a lost game for Germany? I am aware that Japan can still grow to be a monster and win the game for the axis anyhow but let’s keep focus on europe for now. Creating a fleet according to Nippon-kokus suggestion (or similar) would create a situation that requires Germany to respond with their bombers. Once there is a strong static fleet that Germany can’t attack without risking it’s entire air force it’s quite easy for the allies to maintain that ratio of units so that it stays safe. And what happens then? The US can land units basically every turn once the shuttle is running. 8 or 10 units are not frightening, I admit. Easily countered by Germany but the way I see it is that Germany from then on are forced to use their bombers plus land units each turn against a landing force. Using german bombers on that front every turn makes them unusable against the russians. I can certainly see where there could be a bit of trouble breaking through russian lines.

The way I see it, if the US can do this, why would Dark Skies really matter? Would buying 20 Infantry and 10 Tanks be any different? Germany still couldn’t kill the Allied fleet, would still have to divert forces from Russia, would still face the Allies landing every turn…

…and on top of it, It’d be harder for Germany to counter attack.

Seems like Dark Skies is still an optimal strategy against a US invasion.

If you try it out, you’ll see that the U.K. can’t sufficiently reinforce France, even with the additional 6 French troops, from having Germany crush it on round 2.  Even if every available plane is landed there, and the strafe leaves 2 tanks plus the fighter, it’s impossible to hold.  So all that landing planes accomplishes is wiping out the British airforce (and keeping France from falling to Italy).  The payoff isn’t worth it.

The biggest downsides I can imagine are that (1) it is much more difficult to hold off serious landings at Normandy by the US and/or UK.  Italy then has to protect Western Europe and the Med–although with Germany taking S France, they can dump ships in the Med as well if it comes to that (subs backed up by planes would be cheap).  And (2) delaying the war on the Pacific side until round 3 (which would make this work much better at times, depending on the US builds) means that UK Pacific can shuttle some troops over.

The really nice thing about this strategy is that it’s more efficient to have Italy be the 1 force in the Med, and not have to worry about building enough ships off the S France factory right away to protect them from UK planes.

I think it’s going to be the standard opening in our play group for the foreseeable future.

The counter someone mentioned above about making sure to buy troops in S Africa–either mechs, or infantry/artillery to go with transports, in combination with some shuttling from India, is probably the safe response.

Grover and I just started another game, with me being the Axis, and I’ve got to say I’m enjoying the big Italian boost.

@TheWarNoob:

So I get the overall concept of what I am supposed to do, but what about specific unit strategies. What I like to do is:

G1 is buys 3 subs and a minor IC for Romania, and then move as many units as possible towards the Russia front, primarily in the south.

After that I try to dedicate at least 47 IPCs each turn to Russia, in the form of 5 infantry and 5 artillery to be placed in Germany, and then 3 artillery or infantry in Romania. What ever I have left I try to use to defend the west.

Once I take the factories in Ukraine and Novgorod, I build 3 tanks there every turn. I don’t ever bring Italians in Russia unless they do well in Africa and can come through Iraq.

Is this a sound strategy, or do I need to change it somehow? Any critique is very much appreciated.

With the new convoy disruption rules, it might be wise to purchase an aircraft carrier instead of submarines. Still buy the factory, but station fighters on the AC and move into seazone 109. This will be more effective, especially if you keep the battleship and cruiser alive.

@Bravehart:

How many hours was it when the 5th round was played? Just curious.

Too many something like 5h

Been checking the FAQ and it seems to say that Iceland is indeed part of Europe.