Game History
Round: 1 Purchase Units - Germans Germans buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Germans 3 armour moved from Greater Southern Germany to France 1 artillery moved from Western Germany to France 3 infantry moved from Western Germany to France 2 artilleries moved from Holland Belgium to France 2 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France 3 armour moved from Holland Belgium to France 4 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to France 1 submarine moved from 124 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 108 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 103 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone 2 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 110 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Norway to 111 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 111 Sea Zone 1 battleship moved from 113 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 117 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to Yugoslavia 1 fighter moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia 6 infantry moved from Greater Southern Germany to Yugoslavia 1 armour moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia 1 armour moved from Romania to Yugoslavia Combat - Germans British scrambles 3 units out of United Kingdom to defend against the attack in 110 Sea Zone Battle in 111 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Germans 1 fighter owned by the Germans, 1 bomber owned by the Germans and 1 tactical_bomber owned by the Germans retreated 1 battleship owned by the Germans and 2 submarines owned by the Germans retreated to 112 Sea Zone British win with 1 battleship and 1 cruiser remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8 Casualties for British: 1 destroyer Battle in Yugoslavia Germans attack with 2 armour, 1 fighter, 6 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber Neutral_Allies defend with 5 infantry Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Neutral_Allies with 2 armour, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6 Casualties for Germans: 3 infantry Casualties for Neutral_Allies: 5 infantry Battle in 110 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 bomber, 3 fighters, 2 submarines and 3 tactical_bombers British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 2 fighters; French defend with 1 cruiser and 1 fighter Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Germans win with 1 bomber, 2 fighters, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 42 Casualties for Germans: 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 2 fighters Casualties for French: 1 cruiser and 1 fighter Battle in France Germans attack with 6 armour, 3 artilleries, 5 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys British defend with 1 armour and 1 artillery; French defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Germans captures 19PUs while taking French capital Germans converts factory_major into different units Germans win, taking France from French with 6 armour, 1 artillery and 2 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 22 Casualties for Germans: 2 artilleries, 5 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys Casualties for French: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Casualties for British: 1 armour and 1 artillery Battle in 106 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 submarine British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport Germans win, taking 106 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 15 Casualties for British: 1 destroyer and 1 transport Trigger Germans Conquer France: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachment_French_1_Liberation_Switch attached to French triggerFrenchDestroyPUsGermans: Setting destroysPUs to true for playerAttachment attached to French Non Combat Move - Germans 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 111 Sea Zone to Western Germany 2 fighters moved from 110 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 bomber moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany 3 infantry moved from Norway to Finland Germans take Finland from Neutral_Axis 1 infantry moved from Romania to Bulgaria Germans take Bulgaria from Neutral_Axis 1 fighter moved from Yugoslavia to Southern Italy 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yugoslavia to Western Germany 1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to France 1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium 2 infantry moved from Denmark to Western Germany 1 cruiser and 1 transport moved from 114 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone 1 aaGun moved from Germany to Slovakia Hungary 1 aaGun moved from Germany to Poland 1 infantry moved from Germany to Poland 1 artillery moved from Greater Southern Germany to Western Germany 1 artillery moved from Greater Southern Germany to Germany Place Units - Germans 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine placed in 112 Sea Zone Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 39 PUs; end with 58 PUs Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 63 PUs Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 68 PUs13P G40 MagicQ (Axis) vs JDOW (Allies +12) dice nt
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TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8
Game History
Round: 4
Purchase Units - Italians
Italians buy 1 destroyer, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;Combat Move - Italians
1 mech_infantry moved from Belarus to Bryansk
Italians take Bryansk from Russians
1 armour moved from Belarus to Smolensk
Italians take Smolensk from Russians
1 artillery moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
1 bomber moved from Southern Italy to Holland Belgium
2 fighters moved from 95 Sea Zone to Algeria
1 mech_infantry moved from Libya to Algeria -
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8
Game History
Round: 4
Purchase Units - Italians
Italians buy 1 destroyer, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;Combat Move - Italians
1 mech_infantry moved from Belarus to Bryansk
Italians take Bryansk from Russians
1 armour moved from Belarus to Smolensk
Italians take Smolensk from Russians
1 artillery moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
1 bomber moved from Southern Italy to Holland Belgium
2 fighters moved from 95 Sea Zone to Algeria
1 mech_infantry moved from Libya to AlgeriaCombat - Italians
Battle in Holland Belgium
Italians attack with 1 artillery and 1 bomber
British defend with 1 infantry
Italians win, taking Holland Belgium from British with 1 artillery and 1 bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
Casualties for British: 1 infantry
Battle in Algeria
Italians attack with 2 fighters and 1 mech_infantry
British defend with 1 infantry
retreated to Algeria
British win with 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -4
Casualties for Italians: 1 mech_infantryNon Combat Move - Italians
2 fighters moved from Algeria to 95 Sea Zone
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Tobruk to Libya
1 transport moved from 95 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Tobruk to 96 Sea Zone
1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 96 Sea Zone to 95 Sea Zone
1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 95 Sea Zone to Northern Italy
1 transport moved from 95 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from Albania to 97 Sea Zone
2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 95 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from 95 Sea Zone to Northern Italy
1 bomber moved from Holland Belgium to Southern Italy
1 armour moved from Eastern Poland to Smolensk
1 mech_infantry moved from Belarus to Smolensk
1 aaGun and 2 infantry moved from Bessarabia to Western Ukraine
1 infantry moved from Northern Italy to France
1 artillery moved from Northern Italy to France
1 artillery moved from Northern Italy to Western Germany
1 aaGun moved from Northern Italy to Southern ItalyPlace Units - Italians
1 destroyer and 1 submarine placed in 95 Sea Zone
1 tactical_bomber placed in Southern ItalyTurn Complete - Italians
Italians collect 19 PUs; end with 20 PUs total -
Hiya
I get response form official ruler in terms of that sub thing in sz 42. He said that is a loophole. I think we should play in the right way and edit it back. You will still get your sub but not in sz 42, I will get convoy ipc back and do a little non combat edit. How does that sound?
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Hey there,
I am sorry but I disagree. Could you quote what he said and who he was? I played this move in several games and it was played against me.
It is clearly within the rules in written and confirmed by gamerman who is the official rule deputy in this forum.In my personal opinion is: It does not look like a loop hole to me as the special role of subs is clearly described and reminded several times in the rule book. To me it sounds that it was clearly Larry’s intention to give subs that option - although I accept if someone said he finds this a bid odd.
If the official rules would be changed, I would of course follow this change, I believe that this must happen first.So I would like to continue with the latest map and no change in any rules. Please believe me that this is just what I am convinced is the best thing do to with absolutely no intention to get specific advantages in our game - this “thing” was also used against me by the Axis, so it is clearly not an “Allies-only advantage” or so.
Cheers,
Tobias -
Get a response from Krieghund
here is the link
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=28562.0not yet received any response after that from gamerman.
Pls wait a little while to continue our game. I think he will give his opinion very soon.
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Sure, I’ll wait!
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Hi JDOW
Official ruler recommends us to play in the way I proposed. Gamerman says we have to obey current official rule unless you agree to change. So it’s up to you now. If you don’t want any change, do carry on.
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Hi MagicQ,
I appreciate you made an unbiased summary of the thread which I followed, too.
My opinion is:
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I would not like to make any changes on the current map (with one exception) as I played 100% according to the rules which are not ambiguous in my opinion and I not want to take any disadvantages for the legal achievements of my strategy so far - you have my word I would do it the same way if I were Axis in that spot. It was certainly part of my strategy to use subs this way and this influenced my e.g. Anzac buys.
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On the other hand I understand the emotion of being confronted with a negative surprise and the disappointment if being ruled against oneself and I do not want my opponent to be annoyed and risking an unfriendly game though
My conclusion is: -
We both agree to not exploit that loop hole anymore for the rest of our game by NOT moving subs into seazones containing destroyers in Non combat move phase. I think the real loophole is NOT the combat move rules but the fact the subs are allowed to be moved into seazones containing enemy destroyers in non combat movement. So subs could still be deployed in such seazones if possible
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I will edit my US sub off sz6 and put it to Hawaii and I do Anzac with the latest map + that edit.
Hope you are happy to game on that way and that we continue to having a great game.
Best regards,
Tobias -
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Hi JDOW
Thank you for your understanding. I do prefer the rest of our game without having that loophole involved. But the noncombat movement of moving sub into sz with enemy’s destroyer is indeed legal. We shouldn’t change that part. All we need to know is that next round enemy could kill that sub and move other fleets in the same time.
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You have found the root of the problem but gone a bit too far I am afraid. The official ruler has explained this somewhere in the forum. A sub can enter but not go through the sz with enemy’s dd. This is quite clear. I don’t propose to change that. Combining this rule with convoy rule makes USA more competitive in Pacific theater than any other version. Remember that in AA50 (not sure whether you’ve played it or not), even if USA go all Pacific, they still can not challenge Japan.
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ok, fine for me to play it that way from now on. However without the loophole moving subs into hostile sz will usually not be an option anyway:)
I still distinguish moving subs into such seazones and deploy them there. I somehow think that deploying units is something special and I would even prefer of that loophole being enabled in that situation. But the chance that this will play a role is small anyway, so fine for me to waive it here. I will need to think what I will “vote” for in case my opponent doesn’t bother.
But fine to me to allow enemies fleet to leave the sz during combat move phase.
Game on:)
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Great, game on.
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Still an option. 1 sub for 1 dd, 2 ipc gain when use it properly
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TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8
Game History
Round: 4
Purchase Units - ANZAC
ANZAC buy 1 destroyer and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;Combat Move - ANZAC
1 infantry moved from Egypt to Alexandria
British take Alexandria from ItaliansCombat - ANZAC
ANZAC creates battle in territory 42 Sea ZoneNon Combat Move - ANZAC
1 submarine moved from 42 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from South Australia to New South Wales
1 submarine moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from India to Burma
2 fighters moved from India to Eastern PersiaPlace Units - ANZAC
1 destroyer and 1 transport placed in 62 Sea ZoneTurn Complete - ANZAC
ANZAC collect 10 PUs; end with 10 PUs total -
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8
Game History
Round: 4
Combat Move - French
Non Combat Move - French
1 infantry moved from Egypt to Alexandria
1 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Egypt
1 destroyer moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea ZoneTurn Complete - French
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Still an option. 1 sub for 1 dd, 2 ipc gain when use it properly
Sorry, I am afraid I didn’t understand, what did you mean by that?
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TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8
Game History
Round: 4
Combat Move - French
Non Combat Move - French
1 infantry moved from Egypt to Alexandria
1 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Egypt
1 destroyer moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea ZoneTurn Complete - French
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from 6 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to 26 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode -
The Frenchman in SZ110, may I ask which boat are you in?
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The Frenchman in SZ110, may I ask which boat are you in?
Sorry, I should have mentioned that proactively, both, AA and French inf are on the US transport.