Sealion? Is there a perfict set up?

@Elsass-Lorraine:

@NotEvenJail:

Its starting to feel like this guy is just trolling us with these “essays.” I mean come on, man. Many of these statements are way too out of touch. Can’t be serious.

I would hesitate to jump so far so quickly. He/she probably is just discovering this forum and/or other sources of strategies, and their game group has probably been disconnected, if you will, from the most effective strategies that the wider A&A community takes for granted.

I will note that in his first essay (the Barbarossa one) he mentioned how G40 had recieved “little attention on this blog”, which I take to mean the main axisandallies.org website (which most definitely does have a lack of G40-related articles, last I checked) as opposed to the forums. I knew about axisandallies.org the site long before I knew about the forums, so maybe that is what happened here.

I didn’t mean to be harsh just speculating. I get it. This game is special because it has a lot more nuance than one would readily perceive.  I have no problem with the thread just made me scratch my head.

You’ll still sometimes see the damaged Bismark attacked in SZ112, even with the 3 plane scramble.

But let’s go with your premise. The SZ91 cruiser and SZ109 DD can still attack your Bismark in SZ110 and then the planes can retreat to Gibraltar for a SZ92 stack . I would guess that this presumes that there was no scramble in SZ110. So perhaps if the UK scrambles anyway, the Bismark might survive the attack and the UK might not be able to weaken Italy.

@knp7765:

So you are suggesting that the British player loses his capital so that he can sink the German navy? Seems kind of far fetched to me. Yeah, I guess if the German navy were taken out, it would help the US Navy later on and they could liberate London possibly. In the mean time, Germany got to plunder the British treasury and run hog wild on Russia while Italy gets strong in the Med and Africa since the UK can no longer replace their losses there. I suppose India could send stuff over to face Italy, but what if they are being pressured by Japan?

Yes, but Germany spent 2 rounds of income on a fleet so they essentially lose their ground units, probably some air units, the French treasury and whatever ground they have left would be sitting on London, assuming this worked/works.

So what’s holding back the Russians at that point?  They can DOW the round London falls.  (great, now I have that Fergie song in my head!  Bastages!!!)

FAQ (Bottom of page 2, top of 3) is pretty clear on this http://www.wizards.com/AvalonHill/rules/AAEurope1940_2ndEdition_FAQ.pdf

With the new alpha 3.9 its not as viable a strategy to assault london on G3 (this was the point of alpha 3.9)

My guess is sealion on G4 or no sealion at all

If you dont do sealion you still need to wipe out UKs fleet (in atlantic) by end of G2 and have subs in convoy zones to maximize IPC loss for UK.

Honestly if UK goes for a (atlantic) fleet build early then he is leaving London open to sealion on G3 or G4

Regarding Unstoppable Sealion:

I am not saying with any certainty that this would give the Allies a victory, but my face-to-face playing partner and I have had some discussions on what the Allies can do to counter Sealion. We have come up with two possibilities that we have never been able to try and no one has really talked about, much less tried.

1.) Try to sink the German fleet after it attacks the UK. This is contingent on the US buying bombers in the starting rounds and the UK preserving what ever fleet and aircraft that it can.

Under the new rule, Russia immediately enters the war when London falls. So, if Soviets see Germany build a G2 transport fleet, they can build a small fleet in sea zone 127 or 115 so as to take Norway on R3 when they enter the war. Now, the US can fly it’s bombers to attack the German fleet in sea zone 110 and land in Norway. If some German fleet still survives, the UK can use it’s remaining fleet and planes to clean it up.

Problems: What if Germany goes to sea zone 109? This prevents the US bombers from making it to Norway. Possible Solution: Russian build in sea zone 127 and take Scotland on R3 so the US bombers would have a valid landing place. Problem with that: Germany could use a blocker in sea zone 125 or 126. Possible solution to that potential problem: Could the UK position its fleet in such a way on UK 1 so that on UK 2 it places a blocking ship into sea zone 110 and 111 so the only option on G3 for Germany is to do Sealion from sea zone 110?

If the German fleet is sunk post-Sealion, what happens? How badly does this hurt the Germans? Is not enough pressure placed on Japan if the US spends rounds 1 and 2 buying in the Atlantic?

Those were some of the questions my partner and I had. Personally, I think it would be a huge blow to the Germans to lose their fleet because they wouldn’t be able to transport any remaining troops back from the UK to face off against the Soviet for a time (if ever).

2.) The only spot on the entire map that the US can use one set of transports to shuck troops back and forth is Alaska to the Soviet Far East (sea zone 2- sea zone 3). Now, if Germany does Sealion, Moscow survives past round 10. Right? Well, if the US buys fleet and ground for the Pacific, on US 3 (after London falls), they could move to sea zone 3 and offload into the Soviet Far East. From there, mechanized infantry and tanks can make it to Moscow by round 8 (best case scenario). Well before Russia falls. Can they get enough there to matter? I don’t know, but I’d like to try it out. To me, it beats flying mountains of planes since ground units are cheaper.

A few of the positives for this: By having a fleet in sea zone 3, you threaten Japan. Slow walking troops can go to Korea and or Manchuria. The US only needs to build one fleet to have a real effect and place lots of boots on the ground. It also helps the Russians maintain their income from all of the territories in Asia…. a real bonus in my opinion.

I would love to try these ideas out on my own, but I have a newborn in the family and that precludes me from playing for the foreseeable future. Guys and girls, give this some thought. My partner and I believe there could be some validity to these two ideas.

@Stalingradski:

Ok Jimmy! I’m looking through.

G1 - think about switching a Mech Infantry with a regular in Normandy. Since you should win with 1 Infantry, it could be a Mech instead and save you a mobile unit. If you know the ones in France will die - why not let regular Infantry take a beating instead?
***I think you’re right, this is a better idea and a reason to not put only inf in Normandy

I don’t think any aircraft need to be used in Yugoslavia - they can both make it to naval battles and/or France. I use the Fighter from Hungary in SZ112, and the Tac from Poland in France. I openly defy the AA in France - it’s only a 1 in 6 chance, and it teams with Armor to give you an extra 4 for three rounds… which means you should keep an extra Armor and possibly an Artillery, by my math. That offer is too good for me to pass up, even with the threat of the Tac getting shot down. And with the land units you’re bringing, the Yugo battle is a two-rounder and should result in two lost German Infantry regardless.
***the aircraft in Yugo were really superfluous, they just wound up there because there were few other options for them to fly to.  The one in Poland originally went to 112, I think you’re right and sending it there is wiser than Yugo in order to further safeguard the fleet.  I’m not sold on a 1 in 6 chance of hitting a plane over Paris, I certainly wouldn’t count on that aircraft making it.  I’d rather keep the aircraft from hitting Paris in order to guarantee their usage in G2 and G3.

SZ112 just added the Fighter from Hungary, which gives you 12 pips or two hits, meaning a better chance to keep your Sub.

SZs 110 and 106 look good. It would be a bad idea for Britain to scramble.
That’s why I would consider hitting 91 with 2 subs and just air on 110.  This would be in the hope that UK scrambles.  If they do, the first 2 casualties will be BB hit and CA, after that it’s aircraft and someone might be unwise enough to save the BB over a ftr.

Noncom - I would have used the Armor in Poland in Yugo - it can get back next round in time for Sealion.
This was my original intention, the armor went to WGerm because I knew no armor would survive on the French coast and leaving it in Wgerm means it can be shipped out G2.  However you’re probably right, and Germany can still load up 3 inf 3 art for G2 naval threats.

UK1 - I’d take out the Italian Destroyer/Transport combo with a Brit Destroyer/Fighter/Tac Bomber. Then you have the flexibility to park your fleet elsewhere.
that dd is needed to block for the British fleet off Gibraltar however.

Even though I commented earlier on a different UK purchase, 9 Infantry is smart.

Noncoms look reasonable to me.

ITA1 - yes, I would also kill off the British as you did, but if I were the British I wouldn’t have given you the targets. And are you saving S France for G2? I’d let Italy have it, personally, and collect on it the first turn, and get closer to your NO.
Are you saying to forgo the blocker in sz94?  Can the UK fleet survive without it?  If so then I agree and UK should have moved that dd with the fleet.  I forgot SFrance, it wasn’t crucial to my plans so I skipped it on my board.

OK! It was cool to go through your moves and think about them. I also know it’s good to get some feedback.
Thx for the feedback, I;ll go back through and edit my moves so they are smoother, I’ll make sure to update the stats too, but it’ll prolly take a day.

I think the best bet for Sealion would be to risk it by attacking both BB fleets(since the UK will also lose massive air) and building a CV, which adds 2 planes to coastal defense. However, the extra infantry makes it more costly than it was OOB.