WBC Strategies

@vodot Yeah, definitely seems like the US would need some kind of economic boost if they have a split economy. I bet playing like this would be more historically accurate and more fun, especially with more than 2 players.

Hi Argothair! Cool to see your reply! Would be fun to see this in a real dual! Actually that would be the best way to proof certain ideas! ;) but for the sake of the forum discussion we can battle in words! I will share my comments on the points you make.

First of all I do agree that England should spend a considerable amount of money on building up a fleet. This will one way or an other revert pressure from the USSR to the west. Germany either need to build planes to deadzone the Atlantic, or it has to build a defense of infantry. Like in the real history a treat of an invasion already ties down a large force, but at some point you will need to execute it. Norway is still a good starting point. The downside of building the fleet early is that no fighters are going east to support the Indian contingent. This will take pressure off Japan.

Next to that England has to build infantry and artillery in India to at least maintain the stalemate with Japan in Birma. The role of England in the East would not be so big, but it can maintain itself. The pressure on Japan need to come from the US. But it can grab one of the money Islands when it sees a chance. Overall this means that Japan will take longer to conquer. But with Russia getting more support the Allies have more time. More time is equal to more chance to win.

I think the factory in Egypt would be an ok investment. Especially if Germany leaves it alone. Though i doubt if it is a better investment then a fleet in the Atlantic. The Allies need to spend their IPC’s wisely. It can not do both. It could serve to send a few units to help defend Moscow or Caucasus. Though i believe it would be too less by the time it is needed. I like the idea of making a second front in Europe. That can be more effective because Germany need to spread his armies. If you only fortify Moscow Germany can stack into one big army.

Also i agree with your argument about Russia taking Karelia with force if Germany puts down 4 inf in every border territory. But this depend a lot on the outcome of R1! Did Russia get diced in the opening round? Then there are not enough troops in West Russia! Did Russia get a bid? Or did Russia do a Ukraine straffe? What did Russia buy first turn? There is a big chance (i don’t know a percentage) that Russia can not even take Karelia without being wiped out! If Germany would have bought 10 inf as i had suggested and spend the rest on offensive pips, then Germany could have bought 2 tanks. That means Germany had 12 to 13 tanks in range, plus at least 6 inf (2 from Norway plus 4 from Belo Russia plus anything from Baltic), plus 5 or 6 planes. The chance is huge that Karelia is deadzoned! So you should have had luck with the dice and smart with bits and buys to make this work! And it will be tricky still! Even if it works, Germany would take West Russia in stead, and also Russia would not be able to maintain 26 IPC.

What i do not believe is that Russia is able to send units east. Because Germany comes in too strong. For Russia to survive the first 6 rounds against Germany it needs every unit it can get. Even if England decides to build a fleet and harass the coastal territories, then it takes time before this gets some momentum. Overall this means that more inf stay behind to guard the coast. Here i think you overstate the possibilities of England and underestimate the possibilities of Germany. If it wants to maintain its stalemate in Birma, then it can not build much more then about 6 units in Europe. Or it need to buy inf only, which is an army without teeth. At the other hand Germany stays at at least 40 IPC to turn 6 even if they don’t do well. That is because whatever England takes from Germany, they either take back, or they compensate with Russian IPC’s. Most probably making 40+ every turn. By turn 6 the more and more Inf need to stay in the West to fight England. Then around that time it need to be clear whether operation Barbarossa was successful. By that time roughly 50 to 60 inf had been send East. Giving Germany a good possibility to take Moscow. Plus, if the German plan was successful it can continue the pressure with the Caucasus factory.

So i do believe the battle is won between turn 6 and 8. Then it need to proof if Germany was successful in taking Moscow without loosing other terrain to much. And you are right with you comment that it matters with how much Army Germany has left after the sack of Moscow. Are that 20 tanks or 4 tanks? If Germany lost his entire stack of inf but kept the offensive force, then it is not too difficult to swing South and take India and Egypt. After that the Allies go down hill, or does Germany has a few tanks left over and does it need to start build up a force while it need to fight England at the same time? Then probably it is a down hill battle for Germany, which will not get any help from Japan.

At the side of Japan i’m not so sure whether you are right about how quickly it will fall. Obviously the fighters need to stay at sea or close to sea. Japan starts with one bomber and should purchase at least one more. The bombers have a great reach and can both threaten sea zones and help doing some territory trading.

So, the main focus for Japan is defense. It does mostly naval purchases. And you are right that after a couple of turns Japan can not keep up with the US anymore. That shouldn’t be the 4th turn but later if you do it well. That is because the US need to sail their ships across the ocean first. And further: Japan starts with a little head-start, so it has an advantage over the US with a couple of turns. Its best bet is to deadzone the important zones around the Japan with cheap subs. That is cheaper then a balanced fleet, so it can hold of the US fleet for 1 or 2 turns longer than it otherwise would. However, once the US fleet is defensive stronger than the Japanese is offensive, all hope for Japans naval ambition is lost. It can probably buy itself an other turn by retreating a zone closer to Japan. After that it can do two things: wait and see how it will be destroyed, or be opportunistic and attack the US fleet. A lot depends on how the board looks like. Japan might be able to kill all ships except for planes, or just decimate the US fleet. Whatever Japan does, it is not allowed to loose its planes! At the turn you decide to strike, you should be wise to purchase a IC on the mainland, because after that there is no shipping troops possible anymore. This should be about the sixth or seventh turn, depending on a number of factors. Those factors are besides luck and skill, chooses in purchases and early attacks, like the SZ37 attack.

After Japans fleet is gone, Japan need to turtle even more. If the game is in favor of the Axis, then Moscow should have been fallen and Germany starts to pressure England. Japans only income comes from the mainland now. And the US might be busier helping defend India against Germany then it is to sack Tokyo. If that is what is happening, then those are bad days for the Allies. If the situation is that Germany did not take Moscow, while the UK/US are taking territories in the mainland from Japan, while building transports to threaten an invasion of the Japanese homeland, then it are dark days for the Axis!

In a OOB scenario i’ll put my money on the Axis for sure. With any bits the odds might change in favor of the Allies. Also a lot depend on luck in the first round. If Russia looses too much units in the opening round, and the UK doesn’t kill a ship in a SZ37 attack, you might reconsider whether KJF is feasible! But if you see the opposite happening, then KJF strategy can be a very good alternative!

I will return as time allows to flesh out the sections in blue :)

Thanks again everybody

9 battleships would kill on average 6 infantry. By buying 5 infantry, you’d be a man down compared to buying 2 destroyers, however you’d have 5 more infantry shooting in the first round, so your opponent would likely be 2 men down himself by round 2. So even against 9 battleships, you’re better off buying infantry.

My bad, its just 1 sub + 1 fig you can bring to attack the Aussie fleet. (sub + cruiser + trans + 2 inf)

Seems like a good trade (average 24 defender IPC losses in excess of attacker losses)

And, if you survive with the fighter and land it on a carrier next to New Zealand, the US will have to make a choice.
Either bring some of the Pacific fleet (Hawaii) down to New Zealand to kill the fig and carrier, and thus delay atlantic fleet build up. Or just ignore the carrier+fig.

Good luck. I have something kicking around I’m about to try but am concerned about posting it here since I think my opponent may or may not read these forums :)

Suffice it to say, any strategy that does not apply Negative-IPC pressure to Germany (or Japan, although, I don’t have a clue how any KJF strategy would work) prior to Round 4, and applies significant threats to multiple German key territories, to me, spells automatic failure for the Allies.

I haven’t played Germany much but it seems to me buying a Aircraft Carrier at the 1st turn is also a good idea.  This way I can land my fighters there and generate a threat to British or Africa (depending on where you place)

First off you need a bid. I know this might be discouraging because you will be adding pieces to the Out of Box set up, but without a bid the allies are in very poor shape. I recomend a 9 bid for allies. Look at the bid thread for this edition on what you should do with your bid purchase and place.

The allies can do a lot of different strategies, but the important thing to remember is that you should go all out for that strategy. For instance if you are trying to go KJF, and UK killed Japans AC BB and 2 figs, then don’t spend 50% of US’s money in both theaters. Spend all 100% of your money in the pacific against Japan. The same works the other way when going KGF. The two key important areas for the allies through out the first 3-6 turns will be India and West Russia. Make sure you can hold West Russia as long as possible. What I mean by hold is that you have a giant stack of units that Germany can’t attack and defeat. Holding India really depends on what strategy you are going for. If you are going all out against Japan you should be able to hold India for 4 turns at least, unless Japan made a mistake and spent too much of his income on transports and ground forces. You should pull out of India when

1. Moscow will fall in 3 more German turns. Example would be it is UK turn 4 and on Germany’s turn 7 you see that Moscow has no chance to hold, but with the 10+ units from India reinforcing Moscow the turn before Germany will be able to attack should swing the battle greatly in your favor.

2. India will fall to Japan on Japans next turn. This will likely happen on T4 or T5. An agressive Japan might be able to take it on T3, but that is very unlikely.

3. Lastly, if there is a more favorable place for your fighters to be at the end of your turn, then give up India to Japan.