Too balanced?

You seem to think that Japan needs to build a navy in the first few turns, if at all. Japan’s navy is plenty strong as it starts. The US needs to lug a lot of transports and other fodder to blow past 2 battleships + 2 loaded carriers. As US I built a straight armada (I even had the Pearl Harbor fleet alive since Japan was busy with a combined UK fleet in Australia first turn), and believe me even though you have the equivalent bulk of Japan’s navy in the first turn (build 1 carrier and 1 battleship which makes for a total of 2 loaded carriers and 2 battleships equivalent to Japan’s force), it takes 3-4 more turns to get enough forces to actually overwhelm his fleet as well as have the transports and such to invade. I usually just wait for the transports from the East Coast since I’m busy building offensive naval units on the West coast.

The thing about the war between Japan/US is all about who forces who to attack. Loaded carriers with some fodder provide ridiculously good defense, so it’s a question of forcing the other guy to attack you. Japan has no need to build more naval units for the first few turns anyways because he already starts quite strong in that department while the US has to catch up. Japan can just take that time to wipe out India/china/sinkiang.

I’ve never seen a US player put pressure from the coast of Alaska, so I have no idea how well it works. It would take a great deal of resources to get enough transports and troops to threaten mainland Japan.

I admit I’ve probably never seen anyone play exactly the way you do so you’re probably right. But from my experience playing Japan I have very little trouble running over India before the US fleet can get there. The US players I play against usually try to island hop instead of going up from the north off of Alaska.

@trihero:

You seem to think that Japan needs to build a navy in the first few turns, if at all. Japan’s navy is plenty strong as it starts. The US needs to lug a lot of transports and other fodder to blow past 2 battleships + 2 loaded carriers. As US I built a straight armada (I even had the Pearl Harbor fleet alive since Japan was busy with a combined UK fleet in Australia first turn), and believe me even though you have the equivalent bulk of Japan’s navy in the first turn (build 1 carrier and 1 battleship which makes for a total of 2 loaded carriers and 2 battleships equivalent to Japan’s force), it takes 3-4 more turns to get enough forces to actually overwhelm his fleet as well as have the transports and such to invade…

Hmmm… Ok lets start with that US during the first turn will reinforce his fleet on the East Coast with 2 destroyers (from sea zone 10 and 20) 2 transports (from sea zone 10) then on the first turn US buy 1 AC and 1 BB.

Next turn (turn 2) the Japanese player move his fleet away from Hawaii if his not braindead! On the second turn US use his fighters in Eastern US and Hawaii to land on the newly build AC. Moreover US buy 1 more AC and 1 transport and 1 destroyer and 2 artillery. Move 2 infantry to Eastern US from Central US and the fighter in Western US to Eastern US. Also the bomber lands in Alaska. Next turn will be no 3!!!

In that turn US move his fleet to Alaska with 5 inf and 3 art. The fleet is:
2 BB, 2 AC (loaded with 3 fighters), 3 DD and four Transports. During this phase US buy at least 1 fighter and 2-3 subs to kick Japan if attacking Alaska! If you think that Japan has conqured India already in turn 3, you better think again. I say no chance If I am playing UK and put all my money in that land with some temporary reinforcements from Russia! Russia can spare these extra fighters or tanks four just 3 turns IMO!

So my Q is: Since you (Japan) have bought three transports and most likely lost 1-2 of them already and also spent a lot on building 2 ICs and some 6 tanks during turn 3! And you would not have spend any IPCs on your navy except for those transports. Just as you said. Would you feel bad when you see an US armada next to Alaska whithin striking distance of your home land? I guess you would build some defence and gather your hole fleet around Japan. But still you would not feel safe since when you bought those transports, you did shuffle all your infantry and artillery and tanks from Japan to mainland. I guess Japan does not have more than 1-3 infatry and 1 bomber at most! You would buy infantry or bring a lot of your units back from mainland to Japan, just to be safe. Or what would you do?

Wait you’re not being smart. If you send your transports/destroyers immediately west, then who’s to stop Germany from landing in Brazil? I always send the east coast troops into brazil before I send the transports west, otherwise you get sneaked upon by Germany’s mediterranean fleet. That’s 3 IPCs you hand Germany. You would have to spend more to dislodge him because he probably he has his battleship lurking around too so you need to not only build a transport and troops, but a battleship or destroyers of your own if you ran away from brazil the first turn.

Even with that sort of fleet, would you honestly attack a defending force of 4 transports, 2 battleships, 2 fully loaded carriers, and probably the destroyer that survived Pearl Harbor? Even if you won, which you just might, your navy is in absolute shambles. You will have no transports left (hopefully you didn’t load them) and probably missing some fighters/carriers. You have no chance in hell of invading Japan without transports (which you will have to rebuild), while I spend minimal IPCs boosting it with inf each turn so by the next 2-3 turns before you can get there again, you can’t invade it. I don’t care if I lose my fleet because I have my 1-2 complexes down on the mainland. You have to spend many turns getting enough ground troops after our fleets get trashed which takes forever using transports.

@trihero:

Wait you’re not being smart. If you send your transports/destroyers immediately west, then who’s to stop Germany from landing in Brazil? I always send the east coast troops into brazil before I send the transports west, otherwise you get sneaked upon by Germany’s mediterranean fleet. That’s 3 IPCs you hand Germany. You would have to spend more to dislodge him because he probably he has his battleship lurking around too so you need to not only build a transport and troops, but a battleship or destroyers of your own if you ran away from brazil the first turn.

Even with that sort of fleet, would you honestly attack a defending force of 4 transports, 2 battleships, 2 fully loaded carriers, and probably the destroyer that survived Pearl Harbor? Even if you won, which you just might, your navy is in absolute shambles. You will have no transports left (hopefully you didn’t load them) and probably missing some fighters/carriers. You have no chance in hell of invading Japan without transports (which you will have to rebuild), while I spend minimal IPCs boosting it with inf each turn so by the next 2-3 turns before you can get there again, you can’t invade it. I don’t care if I lose my fleet because I have my 1-2 complexes down on the mainland. You have to spend many turns getting enough ground troops after our fleets get trashed which takes forever using transports.

Don´t you worry about Brazil UK or BB and DD in Atlantic or Bomber with fighter can handle it or just skip it!

But you are wrong. I would send all troops to Soviet Far East, since you did not attack. These units 5 inf 3 art would put pressure on Japan in Manchuria! I would also bring my subs to Alaska together with a fighter and buy 2 more transports and 2 infantry and 2 artillery.

Since you would only buy your tanks for mainland and go for India next turn UK would step back to Perisa. Just to spred your forces thin and be able to retake it next turn!

The thing is that Japan are Game Over next turn since you have not bought any defense in Japan! An attack force of 1 Bomber 2 BB 2 AC 4 Fighters 3 DD 3 Submarines and 2 fully loaded transports (2 Inf 2 art) + 2 unloaded transports against your 2BB 2AC 1DD 3Transports at the best!!!

The odds:
Combat cycle 1
US: [4+24+21+43+33+3*2 (opening fire) ]/6 = 6,8 hits (ca6 hits + 1 opening fire hit)
US casualties: 2 hits on BBs and 1 sub and 1 AC and 2 empty transports!

Japan: [24+23+44+3+21)]/6 = 5,8 hits (ca 6 hits)
Japan cassualties: 2 hits on BBs and 3 transports (one as a opening fire) and 1 DD and 1 AC

Combat cycle 2
US: [4+24+1+43+33+22 (opening fire)]/6 = 6,3 hits (ca 5 hits + 1 opening fire)
US cassualties: 2 subs and 2 DDs

Japan: [24+44]/6 = 4 hits
Japan cassualties: AC as an opening fire and 4 fighters and 1 BB

Combat cycle 3
US: [4+24+1+43+3]/6 = 4,7 hits
US cassualties: 1 DD

Japan: 4/6 = 0,7 hits (1 hit at the best)
Japan cassualties: 1 BB

Combat cycle 4
Then if possible US will siege Japan soil with 2 inf and 2 art if not defended by more than 3 inf and a bomber. Normally the Japanes player is not as fanatic as you are and have build up a pile of at least 8 infatry. If so, US will not attack this turn but force Japan to build even more to the next turn, remeber there are coming 2 new loaded transports from Midway by now. But these transports and those two that are left will not attack Japan but wipe them out from mainland by the use of the fighters and the bomber and shore bombardmentand from 2 BBs and the use of 5 inf and 3 art on the very next turn (no 5). As I said before UK will also take back India if lost since UK steped back last turn (leave it with 1 infantry)!!! So what we got here is a Japanese failure. No ships and no ICs on mainland!!! Japan will starv do death.

Germany on the other hand will almost have wiped out Russia by now, but not completely since Japan have not been so focused on Russia but India and the US ever growing navy. And Turn no 5 will be dedicated by the Allies to wipe Japan out of Mainland and build for a rescue mission of Russia, by giving a helping hand from the backdoore (Soviet Far East)! And now US got 2 ICs on mainland and can pump some 6 tanks per turn to boost Russia with! Game Over!!! It is as simple as that I promise! But there is a counter tactic to it and it is not a try to invade US or Brazil with Germany!!! :wink:

well, Mr Andersson. I must say that you convined me that you are right! And thats now just because im swedish too 8)

@Kristofer:

well, Mr Andersson. I must say that you convined me that you are right! And thats now just because im swedish too 8)

Were do you live dude, I live in Sthlm!

Linköping

@Kristofer:

Linköping

För stort avstånd för att lira A&A! Om du ska spela ngn turnering i Sthlm ngn gång så hör av dig! :D

Check out my optional rules in topic “More Powerful Airplanes” under the forum House Rules!

det går väl att spela över nätet, men jag har aldrig satt mig in i det.

@Kristofer:

det går väl att spela över nätet, men jag har aldrig satt mig in i det.

Nja, det bästa är fortfarande via mail! Det finns dock en beta version på ngn form av hemmabygge (PC-version), men det går sannolikt inte lira över nätet!