New A&A chaos game C vs S

@Grendal:

ok Chris. Start post game analysis. I love this variant. It really spices up things. tweeks needed here and there, but overall it’s great.

Thanks Carl!

Would you and Matt be willing to run one more playtest on this thread? Maybe you could switch sides and start over? Let me know if so.

I’d like you to experience the wild variations from game to game, and also on my end I need to tighten up the ‘instructions’ to players in the ruleset. Eventually, the goal is to eliminate the ‘moderator’ role from this game, but we’re just not there yet. Some of what I thought would be obvious needed to be broken down in much simpler terms: even the basic yet crucial distinction between the game’s ‘turns’ and ‘rounds’ needs to be fully understood by players before they start.

So that’s something I can improve right off the bat.

Let me assure you that you’ve seen not even a quarter of the strangeness I’ve crammed into this variant. Some of it was meant for the board game, which I’ve had to scrap and / or replace to work better with the online interface. So, if I take a little time when a ‘6’ gets rolled, it’s because I’m trying to figure out the fairest and cleanest way to adapt the existing concepts.

I won’t spoil anything, because I’d like to keep some surprises for you both next game.

Let me evaluate the mechanics that have been revealed so far:

Zombie-World: Meh. I give this one a 6/10. Although it has potential, it’s fairly complex and doesn’t add much to the table in terms of raw fun. I need to modify it in some way, or drop it in the next iteration.

Spore-Bomb: We never saw this in action. My intuition tells me it would be an @$$-r@ping if employed properly. But who knows?

Ceasefire: 10/10. Simple, doesn’t unbalance the game or require a lot of book-keeping or memorization. Its power depends on the skill and judgement of the player using it. It’s purely defensive, so it prolongs the game instead of killing a player off, which means that no one would probably see this as unfair. I think it was used to good effect in the game we just completed.

Neutral Politicking: 8/10. It opens up new parts of the map for action, and yields a nice amount of surprise while keeping book-keeping to a bare minimum. Could be unbalancing, but only if the European neutrals are randomly rolled.

Chinese Aid: 5/10. Not a lot of fun, and didn’t affect the game at all. However, the game needs small effects as well as big effects, and when a small nation rolls a bonus for itself, you basically wouldn’t expect much more of it. I guess in other games it could be different. Eh. We’ll probably keep it for now, and see.

Storms: 7/10. This has a nice flavor. I’d originally planned for the storms to move around the board, but then I realized it’d be crazy to keep track of that every turn. It postpones certain attacks, freezes other units in places where they’d rather not be, and has other interesting effects. I wish there was a way to ‘mark’ the affected areas on the board, but I’m unable to edit in markers on this program. I think that once you’re used to this effect as players, you will begin to see clever ways to exploit the changes in the board the storms create.

Sabotage: 10/10. This was very easy to do with this interface, and very flavorful. Frustrating for the affected player, and a joy for his enemy. You really start to wish there was a way to kill those bloody spies on your home soil. I will make this effect PERMANENT in the next game, and also provide some counter-espionage to get that monkey off your back if you’re unlucky enough to roll it.

Strategic Masterstroke: 7/10. I think the basic idea is good, but I need to change it somehow so that it’s not an utter and complete BEATING for the other player. Maybe only give mechanized units the second attack? Maybe only give 3 territories the right to overrun, instead of the entire army? I dunno. Suggestions welcome. But it definitely has to be downgraded.

Finally, let me reflect on one general concern I have.

I worry about complexity creep in this variant. We had 8 Chaos Events pop up [out of a possible 54] over 49 turns. That’s pretty much exactly the number of developments you’d statistically expect in a game of this length. Nevertheless, the USA forgot their nation-specific boost from turn 1 by the time the game ended, and the zombie-generation business (and even eventually the chaos rolls themselves) was something which required frequent reminding and clarifying on all sides. The longer a game like this goes, the greater the possibility there is for players to get confused or burnt out under the strain of the extra rules. Thus, in the second edition of the rules, when I need to decide between concision and intrigue, concision will win in the majority of cases. Hopefully this will keep the game fun and quick-moving, while still preserving the ‘spice’ of playing out World War 2 in the m0therf@cking Twilight Zone.

Your thoughts on these matters, and your ratings of the mechanics above, would be highly valued.

Looking forward to the next installation of this epic battle!

Best,

Chris

@Grendal:

Go Carl and don’t forget the Nation specific Chaos Roll.

Don’t forget to unclick the ‘Remove Tech Tokens After Rolling’ button in the Options menu… That way, tech development will be worthwhile to pursue.

Will get onto it now.  Not much to add as you have both kindly wrapped up any possible blunders.

Will agree with there being a problem of keeping up with whats going on.  I said to Matt this morning that I was unaware of when the storm would end, forgot about US gaining a 5/6 roll zombie benefit and there was probably so much more I forgot!  As suggested by Matt, may be a good idea to keep a little document/file open when playing to keep track of everything, or as I suggested every forum page or so should have a chaos summary.

The Chinese zombie issue I faced.  The British gain I suppose only 50% bu spawning immobile zombies.  They act as merely defensive units.

Apart from the above, this variant is great

Ger
Rolling 1d6:
(4)

@Grendal:

1. Chinese zombies. They should be avoided unless you can get them to move in Europe or Africa or anywhere else beyond Chinese territory and Burma. May I suggest French zombies as default when there is no other choice. UK Pacific can get them where applicable but the Brits Empire homeboys should get the default.

2. Storms. The length of the storms made sense once you clarified turns. May I suggest using neutral white territory when storm is blowing, and for sea zones just put a white transport there. Something with no offence or defence in case there are other naval units there.

3. Zombie initial placement. If a player rolls a four, five, or six after having two or more zombies to place then he can upgrade to mech inf. at the cost of trading in two zombies to get the upgrade. You caneven go one further and the player can trade in three for a zombie armoured unit. eg. 2 zombies = 1 mech inf, 3 zombies = armoured unit

Thanks for the feedback, Matthew!

1. I like the idea of making all Allied Zombies French. Simple and clean, and it makes the French move worth taking at the end of the day.

2. Neutral territories (and Chinese transports) are a good way of marking storms. Plus! It means you can’t collect income from the territory while the storm is raging, which makes a lot of sense. Nice one.

3. This suggestion complicates an already awkward set of zombie rules that I’m trying to simplify. Maybe if it was ‘Voltron World’ or something, I could justify combining / transforming units into other units, but otherwise nope. The ONLY way I could see this working is if you rolled for each destroyed unit individually, and then on a result of 6 that specific unit returned as a zombie: that way, you could have Zombie Corps mechs, tanks, artillery, and anti-air units, on top of the regular infantry. Still, the idea is that the Zombie Corps are free units, and as zombies, they should be slower and less effective than regular troops… a kind of creepy garrison or second-line unit. So… no, I don’t think it’s worth the extra book-keeping and/or flavor disjoint.

@pr0c3ss:

Will get onto it now.  Not much to add as you have both kindly wrapped up any possible blunders.

Will agree with there being a problem of keeping up with whats going on.  I said to Matt this morning that I was unaware of when the storm would end, forgot about US gaining a 5/6 roll zombie benefit and there was probably so much more I forgot!  As suggested by Matt, may be a good idea to keep a little document/file open when playing to keep track of everything, or as I suggested every forum page or so should have a chaos summary.

The Chinese zombie issue I faced.  The British gain I suppose only 50% bu spawning immobile zombies.  They act as merely defensive units.

Apart from the above, this variant is great

To help you both keep track of the various events, I’ll paste graphics in any posts where a new rule’s been introduced.

The open word file is probably a good idea, too…

Scramble?

scr3467347.tsvg

I did it…ya blind twat!

well that was a shambles

France
Rolling 19d6:
(1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6)

E.Poland
Rolling 4d6:
(1, 3, 4, 6)

N. Bordeaux
Rolling 2d6:
(2, 6)

S. France
Rolling 5d6:
(1, 1, 2, 3, 6)

:x

Russian Zombies appear as ANZAC.
USA Zombies appear as ANZAC.
Chinese Zombies appear as French.
UK Zombies appear as Chinese.
ANZAC Zombies appear as French.
French Zombies appear as Chinese.

Chris/Matt can you tell me axis zombies plz

@pr0c3ss:

Russian Zombies appear as ANZAC.
USA Zombies appear as ANZAC.
Chinese Zombies appear as French.
UK Zombies appear as Chinese.
ANZAC Zombies appear as French.
French Zombies appear as Chinese.

Chris/Matt can you tell me axis zombies plz

There’s no such thing as zombies. What are you talking about? This is a new game.

we dont start with zombie rolling?  We get/got zombie from a chaos roll before?  Why not start from the start with zombie rolling  :?

oh ok!

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Alpha 3, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 1

Politics - Germans
            Germans takes Political Action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Germans and Russians from Neutrality to War
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and British from Neutrality to Allied
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and UK_Pacific from Neutrality to Allied
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and French from Neutrality to Allied
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and Neutral_Allies from Neutrality to Friendly_Neutral
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and Neutral_Axis from Neutrality to Unfriendly_Neutral

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 2 armour, 4 infantry and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            3 infantry moved from Poland to Eastern Poland
            2 infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland
            3 artilleries moved from Germany to Poland
            11 infantry moved from Germany to Poland
            1 battleship moved from 113 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 103 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 108 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 artillery moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 armour moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux
            2 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France
            3 infantry moved from Western Germany to France
            1 artillery moved from Holland Belgium to France
            1 artillery moved from Western Germany to France
            1 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to Southern France
            1 armour moved from Greater Southern Germany to Southern France
            2 bombers moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Slovakia Hungary to France
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to France
            1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 110 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Norway to 111 Sea Zone
            6 infantry moved from Greater Southern Germany to Slovakia Hungary
            2 artilleries moved from Greater Southern Germany to Slovakia Hungary
            2 armour moved from Greater Southern Germany to France
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to 115 Sea Zone
            2 armour moved from Holland Belgium to France
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to France
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to France
            1 armour moved from Slovakia Hungary to Bessarabia
            2 infantry moved from Romania to Bessarabia
            1 armour moved from Romania to Bessarabia
            1 armour moved from Poland to Romania
            1 submarine moved from 124 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 117 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone

Combat - Germans
            Battle in France
                Germans attack with 4 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 6 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                French defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter and 6 infantry; British defend with 1 armour and 1 artillery
                    AA fire in France :  0/2 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 4 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 6 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber in France, round 2 :  4/16 hits
                    French roll dice for 1 aaGun, 2 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 6 infantry in France, round 2 :  8/11 hits
                    3 infantry owned by the French , 6 infantry owned by the Germans , 1 aaGun owned by the French and 2 mech_infantrys owned by the Germans lost in France
                    Germans roll dice for 4 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber in France, round 3 :  2/8 hits
                    French roll dice for 2 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 3 infantry in France, round 3 :  5/8 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the French , 1 tactical_bomber owned by the Germans , 2 armour owned by the Germans and 2 artilleries owned by the Germans lost in France
                    Germans roll dice for 2 armour and 1 fighter in France, round 4 :  1/3 hits
                    French roll dice for 2 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 1 infantry in France, round 4 :  3/6 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the French , 2 armour owned by the Germans and 1 fighter owned by the Germans lost in France
                French win with 2 armour, 2 artilleries and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is -56
                Casualties for Germans: 4 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 6 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                Casualties for French: 1 aaGun and 6 infantry
            Battle in 106 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 submarine
                British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport
                    Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 106 Sea Zone, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                    British roll dice for 1 destroyer and 1 transport in 106 Sea Zone, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                    1 destroyer owned by the British and 1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 106 Sea Zone
                British win with 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
                Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
                Casualties for British: 1 destroyer
            Battle in 111 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 battleship, 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
                British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer
                    Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 111 Sea Zone, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British
                    Germans roll dice for 1 battleship, 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber in 111 Sea Zone, round 2 :  0/4 hits
                    British roll dice for 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer in 111 Sea Zone, round 2 :  2/3 hits
                Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Germans
                    1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 111 Sea Zone
                    Germans roll dice for 1 battleship, 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber in 111 Sea Zone, round 3 :  3/4 hits
                    British roll dice for 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer in 111 Sea Zone, round 3 :  0/3 hits
                    1 cruiser owned by the British , 1 battleship owned by the British and 1 destroyer owned by the British lost in 111 Sea Zone
                Germans win with 1 battleship, 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 34
                Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
                Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer
            Battle in Eastern Poland
                Germans attack with 5 infantry
                Russians defend with 2 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 5 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 2 :  0/5 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 2 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 2 :  0/2 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 5 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 3 :  0/5 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 2 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 3 :  0/2 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 5 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 4 :  0/5 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 2 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 4 :  1/2 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Eastern Poland
                    Germans roll dice for 4 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 5 :  3/4 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 2 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 5 :  1/2 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Eastern Poland
                Germans win, taking Eastern Poland from Russians with 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 2 infantry
            Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
                Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                French defend with 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Normandy Bordeaux, round 2 :  1/3 hits
                    French roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Normandy Bordeaux, round 2 :  0/2 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the French lost in Normandy Bordeaux
                    Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Normandy Bordeaux, round 3 :  1/3 hits
                    French roll dice for 1 artillery in Normandy Bordeaux, round 3 :  0/1 hits
                    1 artillery owned by the French lost in Normandy Bordeaux
                Germans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from French with 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for French: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
            Battle in Bessarabia
                Germans attack with 2 armour and 2 infantry
                Russians defend with 2 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 2 armour and 2 infantry in Bessarabia, round 2 :  2/4 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 2 infantry in Bessarabia, round 2 :  2/2 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Russians and 2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Bessarabia
                Germans win, taking Bessarabia from Russians with 2 armour remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 2 infantry
            Battle in 109 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 submarine
                British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport
                    Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 109 Sea Zone, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    British roll dice for 1 destroyer and 1 transport in 109 Sea Zone, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 109 Sea Zone, round 3 :  1/1 hits
                    British roll dice for 1 destroyer and 1 transport in 109 Sea Zone, round 3 :  0/1 hits
                    1 destroyer owned by the British lost in 109 Sea Zone
                    1 transport owned by the British lost in 109 Sea Zone
                    Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 109 Sea Zone, round 4 :  0/1 hits
                Germans win, taking 109 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 15
                Casualties for British: 1 destroyer and 1 transport
            Battle in Southern France
                Germans attack with 1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys
                French defend with 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys in Southern France, round 2 :  0/3 hits
                    French roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Southern France, round 2 :  1/2 hits
                    1 mech_infantry owned by the Germans lost in Southern France
                    Germans roll dice for 1 armour and 1 mech_infantry in Southern France, round 3 :  1/2 hits
                    French roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Southern France, round 3 :  1/2 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the French and 1 mech_infantry owned by the Germans lost in Southern France
                    Germans roll dice for 1 armour in Southern France, round 4 :  0/1 hits
                    French roll dice for 1 artillery in Southern France, round 4 :  0/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 armour in Southern France, round 5 :  1/1 hits
                    French roll dice for 1 artillery in Southern France, round 5 :  1/1 hits
                    1 armour owned by the Germans and 1 artillery owned by the French lost in Southern France
                French win with no units remaining. Battle score for attacker is -7
                Casualties for Germans: 1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys
                Casualties for French: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
            Battle in 110 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 2 bombers, 2 fighters, 2 submarines and 2 tactical_bombers
                French defend with 1 cruiser; British defend with 1 battleship and 1 cruiser
                    Germans roll dice for 2 submarines in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 :  0/2 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 bombers, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 :  5/6 hits
                    British roll dice for 1 battleship and 2 cruisers in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 :  1/3 hits
                    1 cruiser owned by the French , 1 cruiser owned by the British , 1 battleship owned by the British and 1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 110 Sea Zone
                Germans win with 2 bombers, 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 38
                Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
                Casualties for French: 1 cruiser
                Casualties for British: 1 battleship and 1 cruiser
            Battle in 115 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 cruiser and 1 tactical_bomber
                Russians defend with 1 cruiser and 1 submarine
                    Russians roll dice for 1 submarine in 115 Sea Zone, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 tactical_bomber in 115 Sea Zone, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 cruiser in 115 Sea Zone, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 cruiser in 115 Sea Zone, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    1 cruiser owned by the Russians lost in 115 Sea Zone
                1 submarine owned by the Russians Submerged
                Germans win with 1 cruiser and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 12
                Casualties for Russians: 1 cruiser

Non Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
                  Germans take Finland from Neutral_Axis
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 115 Sea Zone to Norway
            1 fighter moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 fighter moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 bomber moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 bomber moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 fighter moved from 111 Sea Zone to Norway
            1 fighter moved from 111 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 111 Sea Zone to Western Germany

Place Units - Germans
            2 armour and 4 infantry placed in Western Germany
            1 submarine placed in 113 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 35 PUs; end with 35 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 40 PUs