Who do you prefer to take Finland/Norway with?

there are times when it is more appropriate to take finland with one of the allies than it is with any of the others.

when to take with russia:

1. on R1 when the axis have bid a PE (7 or 8 units in eeu/ukr) and the allies decide they want to try a “backstep”, that is abandon karelia and stack in rus, f/n and/or cau to create a nightmare counterattack for any germans wishing to take and hold karelia.
2. on R2 when dice have gone “average” and russia can afford to not stack every unit in karelia.

when to take with britain:

1. on B1 when the germans have had a weak or mixed start. maybe one uk battleship and transport have survived and/or africa has gone badly. on B1 the priority should be to deal with the german navy, and then with germans in africa. if the germans have lost their entire navy and africa has gone poorly (or even if africa has gone too well to deal with on B1) then sending 2-4inf, 2ftr, 1bmb, 1bb against 3inf, 1arm in f/n really frees up russia to have a BIG R2.
2. rarely on B2 if the russians have their backs against the wall in karelia and need to stack everything in karelia on R2. even in such a case, it is usually a better idea to try to take lightly with russia on R2.
3. if an R2 attack of Xinf, 3arm leaves only 1 german armour in f/n with no losses for the russians, i will sometimes, retreat and let the british mop up the mess. that way the germans have no threat on karelia, even if the russians build mostly in moscow to meet the sprawling japanese monster on turn 2.

when to take with usa:

1. on U1 when britain has cleared but not taken f/n.
2. on U1 when germany as somehow managed to take karelia on G1. this allows britain to concentrate on weu on B1 and weu/eeu/kar on B2.
3. in any game that looks desperate for the allies from the get go you need to concentrate as much wealth as possible in the hands of usa. if the axis get off to a great start tech is the only thing that will help the allies. when fighting a tech war consolidate as much money as possible in the hands of one nation (usually usa or japan) and hope for the best.

when to take with usa or uk, but not russia:

1. in any game where russia is in jeopardy of falling to the axis. if russia holds f/n, but the axis have moscow, the allies will often miss out on collecting 2-4 ipcs while they struggle to get back or at least trade f/n.

disclaimer: i never plan to take with one particular ally. i always attack when i sense i can do the most damage for the least cost or for the least opportunity lost. most often, i find that i take on R2. but i like it best when i get the opportunity to take on B1/U1!

hope this analysis helps!

for the allies:

1. take it quickly! every ipc in this game is critical (even madagascar)!
2. don’t build an industrial complex there! transporting troops is much, much, much cheaper and faster in the long run.
3. don’t build an industrial complex there! i know i already said this, but there is another major problem. many, if not most, games come down to teching in the end. what often saves the allies behind is that the usa is generally very difficult for the axis to sbr with their heavies. building an IC in f/n negates this advantage.
4. try to think of the situation in tactical terms. attack when it is most convenient - in most games it doesn’t matter too much which ally is collecting the extra 2ipc as long as they didn’t give up much to get it.

for the axis:

1. consider every turn you manage to hold onto f/n as a gift. germany’s reign in scandinavia is doomed to failure!
2. elaborate plans to hold f/n for an extra turn or two (like landing the entire luftwafe there, retreating into sweden or reinforcing with any remaining transports) usually involve giving up more than you get. (although, there is a time and place for just about every strategy).
3. we just have to accept that usually the most effective use of those 3inf, 1arm in f/n is to keep russia from heading east one turn earlier. when russia takes f/n on R2 adjust your japanese plan to take advantage of the lack of russian troops on the eastern front. for that reason alone (and usually for many others) the german strafe and retreat to eeu is often a bad idea. don’t regard your units in f/n as just a bunch of guys who are going to get picked off! make the allies work for it!
4. if germany takes karelia but the allies insist on stacking in f/n use it to your advantage! usually germany can pull off an extremely efficient strafe in that situation, allowing them to keep maximum pressure on russia.

happy hunting!!

Either Russia or Britain whom ever gets there first. I prefer Russia, but quickly is more important.

Quite a detailed analysis by Hamar, I can agree pretty much.
It also depends on the ruleset, as has been stated before. I often play with Soviet Sovereignty (also known as Stalinist Xenophobia or Paranoia) where UK/US troops or forces may not enter Soviet held territory as long as the SU is alive. In that case Finnland/Norway is not important for funneling Western troops to the Soviets, while the West can support the Soviets less in other ways than letting them have F/N.
Even without this rule, in most cases Russia can get as well as use it best. So my vote would be for Russia.

I play with high bids and allowing Russia to attack on the first round, so I usually attack Finland-Norway on the first round if I’m Russia. It’s good income for the Soviets.

With a 8 inf PE bid spread over Ukr/EEU those units might be trapped in Fin.

I usually take it with russia on turn 3 because I go for eastern Europe on turn 2 with troops from Ukraine and Karelia.

With a 8 inf PE bid spread over Ukr/EEU those units might be trapped in Fin.

that is why i will never bid more than 23!

@OpTorch:

With a 8 inf PE bid spread over Ukr/EEU those units might be trapped in Fin.

Yeah, with a PE bid such a move is not always advisable, but if Germany only bids one or two inf in Europe, I go for it because then you save your tanks for a future attack on Caucasus or Ukraine or EE.

@madscientist:

@OpTorch:

With a 8 inf PE bid spread over Ukr/EEU those units might be trapped in Fin.

Yeah, with a PE bid such a move is not always advisable, but if Germany only bids one or two inf in Europe, I go for it because then you save your tanks for a future attack on Caucasus or Ukraine or EE.

Just curious here, but wth a german bid of 8 infantry, why not pull back into Moscow with minor pickets and counter attack? Not like you couldn’t remove the AA guns to make it easier, and retain a majority of your army, nay, even have more since you can move the armored unit from eastern asia more central and have it in striking distance on R2.

I ask, only because I’ve never been fortunate enough to play against an 8 inf bid in Europe.

A bid of 8 inf in EE is really hard to deal with because Germany could take Karelia on the first turn and then take Moscow on the second turn, before the US and UK can even get any troops there. However, if the german 8 inf are placed on UKR, you can strafe them with everything Russia has in range and then retreat to Karelia (leaving 1 Rus. inf in Caucasus). This makes it impossible for Germany to take Karelia on turn 1 unless the use all their planes leaving UK with enough of a navy to take Karelia back on the second turn or do other damage like that.

@madscientist:

However, if the german 8 inf are placed on UKR, you can strafe them with everything Russia has in range and then retreat to Karelia (leaving 1 Rus. inf in Caucasus). This makes it impossible for Germany to take Karelia on turn 1 unless the use all their planes leaving UK with enough of a navy to take Karelia back on the second turn or do other damage like that.

This is 1 defense that wont work and will lose for the allies most of the time. The only way to go if you want to stay in Len is making no land attacks in Europe. This is already pretty risky. If you do attack chances for allied succes will go down, and attacking Ukr is one of the worst options.

The Russians might opt for attacking Fin w/3 inf, 3 arm, 1 ftr and clearing the BAL sz w/sub, trn, ftr. Picket Len w/1 inf, move aa out of Len and buy 3 inf, 3 arm. All eastern units rush to Mos, and setup for a counter attack on Len. This is quite risky as well, b/c the Japs can send air support to Len after Germany took Len on G1 (ftr Man, ftr Bur, bmb Jap).