How Are You Using Your (HBG/FMG/Table Tactics/Other) Battle Pieces?

@knp7765:

Thanks toblerone77. I tried to keep things somewhat realistic. I’m especially excited to try out the trucks and transport planes.

I did wonder about some units, particularly Armored Cars, Light Tanks and Self Propelled Artillery. For instance, both Armored Cars and Light Tanks can blitz. I thought, Light Tanks have 1 defense point better than Armored Cars and cost 1 IPC more, so why would anyone bother with Light Tanks when they can buy more Armored Cars? That’s one reason I decided to go to D 12. That way I could make Armored Cars just a little weaker. Therefore, you get better punch with Light Tanks.
Self Propelled Artillery and Light Tanks have the same values, but that was easily fixed by giving them different abilities.
Using D 12 also allowed me to give Elite Medium Tanks (SS and Guards) a little better values than regular Medium Tanks without making them Heavies.

D12 is clearly a way to get more room for better “historical” accuracy.

However, I still think it is possible to keep a D6 counter-part system.
Actually, you only have 2 units with odd number value.

With in between units (3&7 values), it can be add the “pairing with the same unit give an additional +1”.
Armored Car A1D1M2C4, get +1A when paired to Mech Inf or an another Armored Car, can blitz.

Why did you change OOB medium tank for a lower defensive value?

MEDIUM TANK: 6 - 5 - 2 - 6 . Can “blitz”

HEAVY TANK: 8 - 6 - 2 - 8 . Can “blitz”.

Is it a Panther unit sculpt or T34/85 ?
Tiger-class are slower and cumbersome:
You should have this variation for it:
Tiger 8-8-1-8. No blitz.

Takes 2 hits to destroy. Must destroy first damaged heavy tank before damaging second heavy tank. If damaged heavy tank survives combat, it is repaired at the beginning of the next turn. However, if enemy counter-attacks before heavy tank owner’s next turn, that heavy tank is still damaged and only takes 1 hit to destroy.

Did you get the idea from me? Just curious. :-)
I really think it’s the way to get it balance for ground unit.
However, you had a better formulation: more precise.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=31368.msg1206396#msg1206396

D12 is maybe more needed with planes variant. IDK

With D12, you can make AAA fire @1 once/rnd on 1 airplane. (Off topics.) :wink:

@SpitfirED:

Sea

New units:

• Escort carrier: C8 A- D1 M2 (USA - HBG Casablanca)

I think it is too cheap based on battle calc I made vs 2 hits CV at 16 IPCs.
Bringing plane in a SZ is a real advantage.
Need to be at least 9 IPCs, and better at 10 IPCs.
When playing 1942, CV A1D2C14 with 1 hit, CVE need to be at 11 IPCs.

At 10-11 IPCs, I like to add an ASV ability as a DD.
(CVE planes performed escort and patrol mission for Transports vs Subs during WWII).

@knp7765:

Thanks toblerone77. I tried to keep things somewhat realistic. I’m especially excited to try out the trucks and transport planes.

I did wonder about some units, particularly Armored Cars, Light Tanks and Self Propelled Artillery.  That’s one reason I decided to go to D 12. That way I could make Armored Cars just a little weaker. Therefore, you get better punch with Light Tanks.
Self Propelled Artillery and Light Tanks have the same values, but that was easily fixed by giving them different abilities.

Light tank should get a similar bonus as SPA: + 1 or +2 A/D when paired with Medium or Heavy Tanks.
You wrote “+1” bonus for Artillery, but it is a remnant of D6 system. It should become +2 in a D12 system.

HEAVY ARTILLERY: 8 - 4 - 1 - 6 . Can support infantry units like regular artillery in normal attacks. ALSO: can attack from adjacent territory @ 6 during entire combat. When attacking from adjacent territory, does NOT support infantry units.

Really a heavy one on attack! :-D
Why not at least give: A8-D6-M1C6 ?

From another territory? Is it accurate or just a gaming fantasy?
I think we are talking about 100-200 miles, no?

They work like planes A3. They cannot be destroyed by any counter attack on the just conquered territory.
They can stay behind and never be destroyed (unlike planes on offense).
Maybe a game changer…

I would be more “humble” or is it just a Medium Artillery? (like Med Tank):
6 - 6 - 1 - 5 Can support infantry units like regular artillery in normal attacks (+2A).
D6: A3D3M1C5

@SpitfirED:

Sea

New units:

• Escort carrier: C8 A- D1 M2 (USA - HBG Casablanca)
• Super Subs: C10 A3 D2 M2 (Ger - HBG Type XXI)
• Basic battleship: C16 A4 D4 M2 (Long range gunnery special ability) (Ger - HBG Schleswig/USA - HBG Nevada/Japan - HBG Fuso)
• Battlecruiser: C15 A4 D3 M3 (Long range gunnery special ability) (UK - OOB41 Hood/Japan OOB41 Kongo)

Too expensive 1 hit battleship. Should be reduced to 14 IPCs.
And battlecruiser to 14 IPCs also.
To be a balance match vs other ships.

I was looking at these lists of specialized / customized units (which tie into both the subject of house rules and the subject of HBG’s combat pieces), and it made me wonder about something.  Since the presence in a game of too many specialized units goverened by too many house rules could easily get out of hand, what methods are used by players who are fond of such units to keep them manageable?

For example, I can see that it might be practical to have an overarching house rule which says:

1. For the most part, the game is played with OOB pieces having performance characteristics govered by OOB rules.

2. In addition to these OOB elements, the players have at their disposal a (potentially very large) list of specialized units, governed by special house rules and represented by non-OOB sculpts (e.g. HBG sculpts) and /or customized OOB sculpts.

3. Some of these units are available to all player nations, while certain designated other units are restricted to just some (or just one) of these countries.

4. Each player nation is only allowed to use one (or two or three or whatever number) of these special unit types during the course of a game.  Players can purchase as many units of these types as they wish (and can afford), but they can’t make use of more than the specified number of types.  Thus, only a small number of these special types (out of a very large potential list) get used in any single game.

5. The overarching house rule would also specify: a) whether players must choose in advance which special units they will use, or whether they are free to make their choice later in the game; and b) whether the special units are considered purchasable at any time or (alternately) whether they are considered tech upgrades only purchasable under defined conditions.

If people use different methods for handling this, could you describe how your personal system works?  I’d be very interested in knowing what approaches are in use in the A&A community.

@toblerone77:

To be completely honest Marc, as of yet I have a bunch of ideas scribbled into a note pad. I’d like eventually to compile and organize all of the ideas and have them in a well presented supplemental rule book, even if I just print it for myself and the people I play with. Essentially it would be a list of HRs for my custom super set.

Sounds reasonable – it’s a work-in-progress, as is often the case with creative projects.  I like the idea of the final outcome being a specialized supplementary rulebook.

@toblerone77:

The main reasoning for this is that I plan to use every possible unit in some way.

Sounds ambitious.  Looking forward to hearing what you develop.

Guys,

––While I’ve had ideas for a few additional NEW UNIT TYPES, I’m not certain that all of them are necesary and/or wanted. I like things to be as SIMPLE and FAST to implement as possible without having to remember a thousand different rules and/or ‘situations’.

––Having said that, I’ve been a proponent of Long-Range Fighters for quite a while. However, IMHO they MUST be two-engine aircraft so as to ease the identity process along without having to “THINK” about it. We already have the OOB American P-38, OOB German ME-210, OOB British Mosquitto(BAD example). From Shapeways I’ve ordered and received some Japanese J1N1 Gekko’s, and British/Anzac Beaufighters. With both HBG making literally dozens more sets that include aircraft and Shapeways also available,….I don’t think there will be any trouble getting enough
2-Engine Fighters for use as Long-Range Fighters.
––Wouldn’t you agree that for “GAMING PURPOSES” that it would be much better to have
only two-engine aircraft represent our Long-Range Fighters?

What do you think?
“Tall Paul”

****

Iagree with ya and what kind of game are you making?

We almost have the same type of unit.

• Heavy tank: YES CinC TANK
• Heavy artillery: YES HBG and CinC tank)
• Self propelled artillery: YES HBG and CinC
• Truck: C4 NO YET
• Flame tank: NO

Sea new units:

• Escort carrier: YES CinC
• Super Subs: HBG and A&A and custom
• Basic battleship: YES, HBG,A&A and custom.
• High capacity transport: YES HBG, A&A and custom
• Battlecruiser: YES (Light and heavy cruiser)…CinC and custom
• AA Destroyer: YES CinC
• Heavy carrier: custom
• Convoy Cargo…custom

Air

All different type of plane like Long range fighter, Fighter-bomber, Jet fighter, heavy bomber, Medium bomber and dive bomber are from 1/700 airplane and HBG.

Tobleone77 & others,

@toblerone77:

@Tall:

Guys,

––While I’ve had ideas for a few additional NEW UNIT TYPES, I’m not certain that all of them are necesary and/or wanted. I like things to be as SIMPLE and FAST to implement as possible without having to remember a thousand different rules and/or ‘situations’.

––Having said that, I’ve been a proponent of Long-Range Fighters for quite a while. However, IMHO they MUST be two-engine aircraft so as to ease the identity process along without having to “THINK” about it. We already have the OOB American P-38, OOB German ME-210, OOB British Mosquitto(BAD example). From Shapeways I’ve ordered and received some Japanese J1N1 Gekko’s, and British/Anzac Beaufighters. With both HBG making literally dozens more sets that include aircraft and Shapeways also available,….I don’t think there will be any trouble getting enough 2-Engine Fighters for use as Long-Range Fighters.
––Wouldn’t you agree that for “GAMING PURPOSES” that it would be much better to have only two-engine aircraft represent our Long-Range Fighters?

What do you think?
“Tall Paul”

�

I think it’s a good idea TP.

I need to rephrase my “wanting to use everything”. I want to add mostly ground and air into the mix and some naval. I am not going to over specialize. At the moment I’m considering giving nations special nation specific weapons like the ME 262 and the Type XXI U-boat as Germany’s “special units”. All nations will have something. My project at times feels like I’m painting the Mona Lisa on a grain of rice LOL.

I have not posted a whole lot information on how I’m using many of my units because frankly in open forum it can have less than desirable results. Also not everybody wants or has a full “HBG Arsenal” which for some ideas is a must.

I do hope people who are using custom units will continue to post their ideas no matter what they are in this thread, I think the forum needs a spot like this for those of us who enjoy custom units specifically.

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----When I said NEW UNIT TYPES,…I meant over and above all of the OOB & HBG unit TYPES that have already been produced,…such as Long-Range Fighters.

––I think that LRFs would be a very useful unit that could escort Bombers all the way,…or simply have an enlarged radius of action. In most of my A&A games I would certainly PAY for the increased capabilities these LRF units would have!

----I doubt that most A&A gamers would want to include ALL of the different UNIT TYPES in their games, especially if they’re only playing G-40.2E
----HBG’s new game Global Warfare 1939 is a much more inclusive game as far as unit TYPES and has many of the “new” rules already play-tested and balenced. If you haven’t already done so, I’d invite you to d/l their free unit list and rules i order to “check them out”.
–-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----As far as other completely new UNIT TYPES I favor would be:
Fighter/Bombers, single engine a/c like a P-47 Thunderbolt or F-4U Corsair
just consider it like a "flying tank), and
Attack Bombers, a two-engine longer-ranged version of the above.
like an A-20 Havoc or Mosquitto

“Tall Paul”

Shapeways A-20 Havoc

****

@Tall:

Having said that, I’ve been a proponent of Long-Range Fighters for quite a while. However, IMHO they MUST be two-engine aircraft so as to ease the identity process along without having to “THINK” about it.

Fair point about easy sculpt identification – but note that, out of the three US fighters which excelled as long-range fighters / escort fighters during WWII, two of them (the  P-47 Thunderbolt and the P-51 Mustang) were single-engine aircraft.

@toblerone77:

These are just some of the general ideas I’m working with.

There are more!? That is a lot of ideas!  :-o

Keep it up though. Like to see innovation. Will probably steal some of your rules or modify them for myself.