Balancing Cruiser (CL) and Battleship (BB) units with other A&A units

@bakerbei

Haven’t played 42 hardly at all. His other mods, 41 and 39, especially 41, seem very balanced. I think if you haven’t played it much, I’d just roll with no bid for starters.

pacific 2000 silver box has marine molds

You have some thoughts about new rules and new units for the Milton Bradley-era A&A? I am right there with you. I posted some thoughts late last year / early this year. I will link them below so that you can find them. If you want to discuss these rules, I recommend commenting on the relevant post rather than right here. But you do you.

One thing I will mention. I like paratroopers and paratrooper rules. But using bombers to cart around paratroopers is both silly and not historically accurate. So, I wrote rules for another new unit, the Air Transport or Cargo Plane unit. Think of them as Transports in the sky - with less cargo capacity and more movement points. See, when you fold in both the Paratrooper and their trusty steeds, the cargo plane / air transport, then I think you’ve got something…

Midnight_Reaper’s New A&A Classic Rules:
1(Classic) Simple Cruiser Rules for Classic: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41100.0
1a(Classic) Cruisers or Destroyers for Classic?: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41552.0
2(Classic) Paratrooper and Air Transport Rules for Classic: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41101.0
3(Classic) Armored Cavalry and Troopers - Rules for two ground units for Classic: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41157.0
4(Classic) Heavy Artillery - Rules for a new ground unit for Classic: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41158.0
5(Classic) New Research Rules - Outsmart your Enemies: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41479.0
6(Classic) New Research Tech for Classic: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41480.0
6a(Classic) New Research Tech for Classic, at a Lower Dose: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41481.0
7(Classic) National Advantages - A new way to help balance Classic: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41482.0
8(Classic) New Unit Surcharge - New Economics for Classic : https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41483.0
9(Classic) Special Forces - New Optional Unit for Classic: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41484.0
9a(Classic) More Special Forces Options for Classic: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41485.0
10(Classic) Incendiary Thoughts - Strategic Bombing and Classic: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41486.0
11(Classic) Unit Prices & Balance - New Economics for Classic: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41487.0
12(Classic) New Initial Setup - New Setup for Classic: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41551.0

Like I said, I have some thoughts on the subject…  And I’m not even done with this series, just mostly done…  :-D

-Midnight_Reaper

@Caesar:

I’d rather do the dog fight rule, it makes a lot more sense.

Yes that’s what I meant by combat.

“House Rules” changes or additions to Axis & Allies: 1914

To better balance play between the Allies and the Central Powers,  to improve historical accuracy, and to add a new Irish rebellion option. This is how I will play A&A 1914 henceforth, chez moi.

Germany Set Up
Add a German Cruiser and Transport to Sea Zone 24 and a German Cruiser in Sea Zone 26.

The Germans had a respectable navy operating in the South Atlantic and in the Pacific in 1914 and there were running sea battles between German and British flotillas during this time in these regions.  The game should reflect this, and it also adds a necessary element of tension in what is otherwise a complete sideshow (Africa) where the UK and France are not challenged at all.

Movement: ENTRAIN
Once a turn, before resolving combat, a player may move any number of pieces from one single space directly along a path of contiguous spaces to his capital, as long as the capital is uncontested and the route is not blocked by hostile or contested territory.  Any sea spaces involved also must be free of all enemy naval units and also contain at least one friendly Transport ship.  This movement must end in the capital; units may not stop elsewhere en route.

This reflects nations’ abilities to transfer troops rapidly along a rail system from front to front, as happened regularly during the war, particularly for the Germans for their big 1918 offensive after their Eastern Front stabilized; the current game, with its slow movement rates, makes this impossible.

Submarine Sneak Attack
Submarines always have a “first shot” ability when attacking or defending and then the option to submerge after any round of combat.  Submarines as defenders only hit on a roll of 1.  Hits by submarines are inflicted before returning fire.  Submarine versus submarine combat is considered simultaneous, as per normal combat.

Similar concept to “regular” A&A (WWII).  I don’t know why the 1914 game doesn’t allow for “sneak attacks.”  It was even harder to detect or avoid enemy subs in WWI than WWII.  And Germany badly needs this equalizer.

Swiss Mobilization
If  Switzerland’s neutrality is violated, it mobilizes 6 units (1 artillery and 5 infantry) hostile to the invaders.  Switzerland’s IPC value remains at 1.

Switzerland preserved its neutrality through two world wars by deterring attackers who would have faced a nation fully in arms and prepared to resist from many mountain strongholds and fortresses.  The Swiss should be much harder to subdue than this game provides and a special rule is in order, especially given the game board’s layout that makes Switzerland an overly tempting target out of proportion to to geography.

Russian Revolution
The Russian revolution rule is always in effect, not merely an optional rule. If the Revolution occurs, Russian IPCs are returned to the bank, not awarded to a player, but the Central Powers DO get credit for “capturing” a capital (Moscow).

The Revolution knocks Russia out of the war and it’s silly to punish the Central Powers by denying them credit for this.

Revolt in Ireland
No non-British Allied land or air units are permitted in Ireland. The German player may invest a total of 3 IPCs during each Purchase Units phase in hopes of fomenting an Irish rebellion – similar to the technology tables in early edition A&A, 3 IPCs spent buys ONE immediate die roll THAT TURN only (i.e., the spent IPCs are not retained or carried over to succeeding turns).  Having any German ship adjacent to Ireland at this time provides a +1 to the die roll for this check. If a modified roll of 6 is rolled on a die, Irish nationalist republicans revolt.  Irish rebellion is also automatically triggered by any German land unit present in Ireland at the end of a German turn.+

If Ireland rebels, immediately place two infantry figures in Ireland under the control of the German player; these represent Irish rebel forces hostile to Great Britain.  If Great Britain loses control of Ireland or Ireland is contested, at the start of each British player Purchase Units phase the British player forfeits as many IPCs as there are enemy units in Ireland directly to the German player, up to a maximum of 8.  If Great Britain loses control of Ireland and Ireland is not contested Ireland becomes controlled by Germany and Germany receives its IPC value. At the start of each German turn that Ireland is controlled by Germany or contested, another Irish rebel infantry figure is placed in Ireland, up to a maximum of four rebel infantry units. Only infantry units are raised as Irish rebel units but there is no limit to other nation’s units that can be moved to Ireland.  Irish rebel units may not leave Ireland. Ireland will only revolt once in a game.

This rule simulates the complicated political situation existing in Ireland during WWI and the historical “Easter Uprising” of 1916. Because German submarines were often used to smuggle weapons and personnel to Ireland during this time, and German invasion prospects encouraged the Fenians,  the presence of German naval units increases the chances of rebellion.  The USA and France traditionally sympathized with Irish republicanism and their governments were not likely to agree to their militaries forsaking the war against Germany to suppress Irish nationalism.

I have been working on something that may help balance any abilities you give to cruisers . A way to add more of a “capital” ship into the game, so I have bought blue, black, and orange counters (same kind as stock white and red ones) and plan on using them to mark hits on capital ships, orange being fire (dive bomb/ kamikaze) and blue being water (torpedo bomber). I have bought several new units from HBG to depict the different aircraft, but being largely a historian I find the loss of a battleship or carrier during one roll kind of odd. I know you have the option to tilt the piece for a second hit? But what about if you mark the ship with a hit or two and then put a black marker for smoke? Now while you are limping the ship to port for repairs attacking battleships can fire from longer range instead of attacking within the same sea zone. This in effect would make any rules to cruisers balanced because they can be sunk in a round of combat. Whereas if capital ships BB and CV’s are sunk in shallow water areas they can be raised as well. Now your poor man’s BB pales in comparison because it won’t have the capability to take multiple hits and long range engagements. As for balance the very fact that when crippled movement shall be one space and the smoke allowing for long range engagement should even things out. I don’t mind adding miniature elements to the game because it only enhances play.  What do you guys think?

nice piece…

@CWO:

One low-cost way for you to experiment with this concept to see if it works, and to then help you decide if you should invest more money in the way you described to give each nation  its own special HBG unit, would  be to:

Pick up a copy of A&A 1941

Extract from it the unique sculpts that represent weapons which were actually used by the nations which produced them, and ignore the ones which are “national mismatches” (American IS-2 tanks, and so forth)

Designate them as special units and create (or find) house rules to govern them

To give some examples:

The tank sculpts in 1941 represent German Tiger and Russian IS-2 tanks, both of which were heavy tanks.  Those two nations would therefore have the ability to build heavy tank units.

The battleship sculpts in 1941 represent the British Hood class and the Japanese Kongo class, bot of which were battlecruisers.  Those two nations would therefore have the ability to build battlecruisers.

The other units aren’t as clear-cut as examples, but you could use a similar technique.  The American Sumner-class destroyer could be used to represent destroyer escorts (which, I admit, they weren’t).  The British  Lancaster could be used to represent a bomber with a super-heavy lift capacity, the Lanc being the only Allied bomber which was long enough and powerful enough to carry the Grand Slam super-heavy bomb.  And so forth.  The point is that one single copy of this game, which is fairly inexpensive, would give you lots of unit types with which to test your concept.

Interestingly enough, I actually had a new 1941 at one time (I got it as a Christmas Present), but returned it for the very reason that each nation didn’t have unique sculpts. I grabbed the Seafarers expansion for Catan instead.

But thanks for the idea.