Balancing Cruiser (CL) and Battleship (BB) units with other A&A units

@bakerbei

Haven’t played 42 hardly at all. His other mods, 41 and 39, especially 41, seem very balanced. I think if you haven’t played it much, I’d just roll with no bid for starters.

@panther This is indeed the recommendation I’ve followed. Forgot to mention I’m testing with low luck dice.

@Dauvio:

@Baron:

@SS:

Ya I like it too.
2 inf = A2 A25.0% total
1 inf+1 art = A4 A50% total makes up the drop for sure.
Cost ya 7 instead 6 icps.

Do you know how many Art are bought in a game on average for China ?

I hope it will be at least Arty A3 D2, so chinese Inf will get A2+A3 for 5/8 or 62.5% which is nearer the OOB 4/6 (66.7%) combined arms.

This little case also shows that China might be better with a strong Arty A3 D3 because defense 5/8 (62.5%) will be nearer OOB 66.7% for Art+Inf.
Otherwise, 50% 4/8 combined defense is a whole D6 pip below OOB 66.7%

China need something because japanese Fighter and TcB keeps their usual OOB 50% attack per unit.

Interesting idea about Chinese Inf at cost 2.
Mostly the case with AA50.

Baron Munchhausen have been using the ENIGMA (vann) FORMULAS on these proposals???

Hi Vann,
I made up a straighter version of Enigma formula based on the odds of making a hit instead of using the number on dice.

So, you can change the values but still can compare if you immediately use the odds as input to the formula.
It allows to compare within any dice system and a same unit with different cost or odds.

Here is below the post with YG roster and variants still discussed:

@Baron:

YG’s complete D8s roster

Here is the comparative with Enigma formula (still using a 12 IPCs unit reference) based on odds, not dice number.
144*Odds/cost^2 = strength of unit on same odds by hit per IPCs basis.

I bolded the greatest number between D8 or D6 for same unit.
When there is no difference, I did nothing.
So, you can see at glance which is boosted or nerfed compared to OOB.

Unit type  Combat value  (D8 system) (D6 OOB)
Infantry       A1-2 D2    (2.00-** / 4.00)         (2.67-3.92 / 5.33)
Inf A2+Arty A2 D2         2.94**  /  2.94         (3.92 / 3.92)
Inf A2+Arty A3 D2         3.67**  /  2.94         Same as above
Inf A2+Arty A3 D3         3.67**  /  3.67         Same as above

MechInfantry A1-2 D2  (1.125-** / 2.25)       (1.50-3.00 / 3.00)
MechInf A2+Art A2 D2  (2.25** / 2.25) vs       (3.00 / 3.00)
MechInf A2+Art A3 D2  (2.81** / 2.25) vs        Same as above
MechInf A2+Art A3 D3  (2.81** / 2.81) vs        Same as above

Artillery   A2 D2       (2.25 / 2.25)                  (3.00 / 3.00)
Artillery    A3 D2       (3.375 / 2.25)               Same as above
Artillery    A3 D3       (3.375 / 3.375)             Same as above

Tank         A4 D4            (2.00 / 2.00)            (2.00 / 2.00)

Anti-Air A  A0 D1* (0.00 / 0.72 per plane)       (0.00 / 0.96 per plane)

Fighter      A4 D5    (0.72 / 0.90 )              (0.72 / 0.96)

TcBomber  A4-5 D4 (0.595-** / 0.595)       (0.595 / 0.595)

TcB A5+Tank C17    (1.12** / 1.00)         (1.16 / 1.00)
TcB A5+Fighter C21 (0.735** / 0.653)     (0.761 / 0.653)
StBomber  A5 D1    (0.625 / 0.125)         (0.667 / 0.167)

Submarine  A2 D1 (1.00, fs: 1.50 / 0.50 fs: 0.67)   (1.33, fs: 2.00 / 0.67 fs: 0.89)
Submarine  A3 D2 (1.50, fs: 2.25 / 1.00 fs: 1.33)   (1.33, fs: 2.00 / 0.67 fs: 0.89)
Destroyer    A2 D2 (0.563 / 0.563)                        (0.75 / 0.75)
Destroyer    A3 D3 (0.844 / 0.844)                        (0.75 / 0.75)
Cruiser        A5 D5  (0.625 / 0.625)                       (0.50 / 0.50)
Carrier, 2 hits A0 D2 (0.0 / 0.368)                            (0.00 / 0.491)
Carrier, 2 hits A0 D3 (0.0 / 0.552)                          As above
Battleship    A6 D6   (0.707 / 0.707)                      (0.628 / 0.628)

It’s all great! Artillery is great for Russia, Mechs are great for Germany, crusier and tactical bomber are useful for Japan USA and UK, and AAA add nice defense.

I’ve always thought about making essentially everything worth at least 1 IPC anyways, hoping that that if nothing else would get some fighting. Maybe you’re right and pushing a couple IPC’s for each might do the trick as well!

I’ll have to try it out and will let you know how it does. May try the prerequisites that were mentioned as well. Always wanted to do that with the Med as well (Allies must control Sicily before they can attack mainland Italy), so I may expand that and see if it brings some of those small territories into it. A Midway battle would be pretty sweet!  :-)

Thanks for the feedback.

In the first game i played with my brother I just assumed that submarines have first strike. I actually
was rather surprised when I read that they don´t.
Also, I think that USW is rather weak.

Maybe using the damage rules from global 1940 and give the subs first strike could help the central powers
a bit in their struggle.

oooo I like the options the germans get with swapping the bat for an acc.

That’s got to come in handy!

:|
Or, use A@A pieces on a risk board.
    Infantry are worth 3 reinforcemint point
    artillary are worth  4 points
    tanks 5
    fighters 10
    bombers 15
    transports 8
    well, you get the idea.
Build a factory, (15 points) and all the units that you buy to place there, cost 2 points less!
  Protect it well, if a enemy captures it, then they can use it.
    The only way to get from one continent to another is with a transport “bridge”. One transport per dotted line is enough to ferry your army/armies across.
   Use A@A combat rules, and movement, or risk combat and movement, your choice on what you are comfortable with.
It will be a slower game than Risk, but interresting none the less.
  I think I will set this up this weekend and see how it plays myself. It could be a good cross-over to get Risk players  interrested in playing A@A.  :wink:

Bottom line, have fun!   :-D