Balancing Cruiser (CL) and Battleship (BB) units with other A&A units

@imperious-leader said in Global 1940 Fixed Units Variants:

@gen-manstein right, just off the top of my head.Baron M. could collaborate

Barons to busy. We don’t need his collaborate.

Until recently, it was only bided for the Axis. But now, in more and more games the Allies get a bid. Let`s see what the best bid option/s for them would be…

I) UK & UK Pacific

Definitely the best Allied nation to give bid to. The ideas are planty, but let`s focus on the best:

1) A sub to Atlantic and/or the Mediterranean

A submarine in the Mediterranean can help strike Italy in sz 97 stronger than usual, but a submarine in the Atlantic can help strike both Italy (sz 95 and sz 96) and Germany.

2) Land unit/s to Alexandria and Egypt

An infantry or artillery to Alexandria and mechanised infantry or tank to Egypt can help strike Tobruk more heavily.
An aa gun in Alexandria or Egypt could be of use too.

3) A fighter or tactical bomber

The ideas are Scotland or Malta. One more fighter at Scotland helps in the defense of sz 109 and sz 111 on G1, and helps in the defense of UK against bombing on later German turns. Also it gives it`s share to the defense against Sea Lion.
The Mediterranean fighter gives UK more options either attacking sea or land Axis units, either defending from them.

4) A transport to Union of South Africa

It helps to move to action the two infantry from Union of South Africa on UK1.

5) An infantry to France

If France bids an infantry there, together with it, it can mean a lot in the defense of Paris.

6) A transport to India

To take Sumatra and/or Celebes, then Iraq, Ethiopia or Italian Somaliland more heavily.

7) A marine to India

The same as in the bid above, just lighter.

II) China

1) An infantry for defense

Best to put to Yunnan, then Hunan, then Chahar, and the least to Anhwe.

2) An infantry and/or artillery for offense

Best to put to Kweichow, Szechwan, Hopei and the least to Suiyuyan.

3) A fighter
Good to have one more for striking Japan more easily. Best to put is to Kweichow.

III) France

1) An infantry to France and/or Normandy Bordeaux

It can help to aid in the defense against eminent G1 attack.

2) A fighter to UK

It can help UK early on on defense, and puts more options for some French attack against lonely Axis land or sea units.

3) A sub to Madagascar

A good escort to the destroyer, can soon be moved to the Shores of Indochina/Indonesia or Mediterranean.

IV) Russia

1) Land units to Eastern Europe border territories

An infantry (or AA gun) to Baltic States/Eastern Poland/Bessarabia to prevent (or back off) an early G1 attack on the Eastern Front.

2) Land units to Eastern Europe offside terittories

An artillery to Novgorod/Belarus/Western Ukraine/Ukraine to counter an early G1 attack.
An option is also a tank to Novgorod/Belarus/Western Ukraine/Ukraine/Archangel to aid in the counter attack.

3) Land units for striking Japan

A mechanised infantry and/or tank to Caucasus and Volgograd.
An artillery or tank to Amur.

IV) ANZAC

1) A marine

If put to Queensland or New Zealand it helps ANZAC to take both Java and Dutch New Guinea on rd 1, and to take both Sumatra and Celebes on rd 2.

2) A transport

The same as in the bid above, just taking those territories more heavily.

3) A land unit to Egypt

An ANZAC artillery or AA gun would be good to have there.

VI) USA

U do not bid with USA. It goes to war late, and does not need anything. If U must, bid a small IC to Alaska  8-)

@Dauvio:

@Baron:

@SS:

Ya I like it too.
2 inf = A2 A25.0% total
1 inf+1 art = A4 A50% total makes up the drop for sure.
Cost ya 7 instead 6 icps.

Do you know how many Art are bought in a game on average for China ?

I hope it will be at least Arty A3 D2, so chinese Inf will get A2+A3 for 5/8 or 62.5% which is nearer the OOB 4/6 (66.7%) combined arms.

This little case also shows that China might be better with a strong Arty A3 D3 because defense 5/8 (62.5%) will be nearer OOB 66.7% for Art+Inf.
Otherwise, 50% 4/8 combined defense is a whole D6 pip below OOB 66.7%

China need something because japanese Fighter and TcB keeps their usual OOB 50% attack per unit.

Interesting idea about Chinese Inf at cost 2.
Mostly the case with AA50.

Baron Munchhausen have been using the ENIGMA (vann) FORMULAS on these proposals???

Hi Vann,
I made up a straighter version of Enigma formula based on the odds of making a hit instead of using the number on dice.

So, you can change the values but still can compare if you immediately use the odds as input to the formula.
It allows to compare within any dice system and a same unit with different cost or odds.

Here is below the post with YG roster and variants still discussed:

@Baron:

YG’s complete D8s roster

Here is the comparative with Enigma formula (still using a 12 IPCs unit reference) based on odds, not dice number.
144*Odds/cost^2 = strength of unit on same odds by hit per IPCs basis.

I bolded the greatest number between D8 or D6 for same unit.
When there is no difference, I did nothing.
So, you can see at glance which is boosted or nerfed compared to OOB.

Unit type  Combat value  (D8 system) (D6 OOB)
Infantry       A1-2 D2    (2.00-** / 4.00)         (2.67-3.92 / 5.33)
Inf A2+Arty A2 D2         2.94**  /  2.94         (3.92 / 3.92)
Inf A2+Arty A3 D2         3.67**  /  2.94         Same as above
Inf A2+Arty A3 D3         3.67**  /  3.67         Same as above

MechInfantry A1-2 D2  (1.125-** / 2.25)       (1.50-3.00 / 3.00)
MechInf A2+Art A2 D2  (2.25** / 2.25) vs       (3.00 / 3.00)
MechInf A2+Art A3 D2  (2.81** / 2.25) vs        Same as above
MechInf A2+Art A3 D3  (2.81** / 2.81) vs        Same as above

Artillery   A2 D2       (2.25 / 2.25)                  (3.00 / 3.00)
Artillery    A3 D2       (3.375 / 2.25)               Same as above
Artillery    A3 D3       (3.375 / 3.375)             Same as above

Tank         A4 D4            (2.00 / 2.00)            (2.00 / 2.00)

Anti-Air A  A0 D1* (0.00 / 0.72 per plane)       (0.00 / 0.96 per plane)

Fighter      A4 D5    (0.72 / 0.90 )              (0.72 / 0.96)

TcBomber  A4-5 D4 (0.595-** / 0.595)       (0.595 / 0.595)

TcB A5+Tank C17    (1.12** / 1.00)         (1.16 / 1.00)
TcB A5+Fighter C21 (0.735** / 0.653)     (0.761 / 0.653)
StBomber  A5 D1    (0.625 / 0.125)         (0.667 / 0.167)

Submarine  A2 D1 (1.00, fs: 1.50 / 0.50 fs: 0.67)   (1.33, fs: 2.00 / 0.67 fs: 0.89)
Submarine  A3 D2 (1.50, fs: 2.25 / 1.00 fs: 1.33)   (1.33, fs: 2.00 / 0.67 fs: 0.89)
Destroyer    A2 D2 (0.563 / 0.563)                        (0.75 / 0.75)
Destroyer    A3 D3 (0.844 / 0.844)                        (0.75 / 0.75)
Cruiser        A5 D5  (0.625 / 0.625)                       (0.50 / 0.50)
Carrier, 2 hits A0 D2 (0.0 / 0.368)                            (0.00 / 0.491)
Carrier, 2 hits A0 D3 (0.0 / 0.552)                          As above
Battleship    A6 D6   (0.707 / 0.707)                      (0.628 / 0.628)

Hello,

I have Revised and a friend of me has the Spring42 Version. We prefer the newer Rules of Spring42 with the additional cruisers, “better” transporter rules and so on. But the board of Revised seems to be better, bigger and with more detail.

Now we plan to play on the Revised board (with Revised setup) with the Spring42 rules.

Has anyone of you did this before or has any ideas if this is feasible and playable?

Thank you very much!

I bought it, along with some V2 rockets, im not sure about the rules and I havnt had time to really think it through, but ill get to it :)

I don’t think its fair to say clear the entire territory and whatnot. I need to keep the Bomb and V2 rocket kinda the same, so both Axis and Allies have the same thing technically.

Then figure in a way to allow it to be used easily ingame, not a bogged down adventure that takes away from the game. It would need to be an addition to the R&D for sure. I wont get to this though until my map project is winding down.

Tanks are definitely not as good of a buy as they used to be. I think 2 infantry is a much better buy.

Yes but the volume in numbers of these can contribute to some measure of success. Its the key plane ( the JU-87) that gutted some many early war cities engulfed by war. It had a psychological effect on the population employed by how it was used.To me this is also strategic because its destroying the morale and producing chaos. So i put fighter-bombers into the classification of light bombers, with medium level bombers as the 12 IPC unit and heavy bombers as late war bombers of superior payload.

@dezrtfish:

So, you take a bad odds chance of loosing 12 IPCs worth of equipment for an average of 3IPCs loss to your enemy.

1/61 + 1/62 + 1/63 + 1/64 + 1/65 + 1/66 = 3.5

About the odds! If one uses one fighter to escort the bomber and the enemy has one fighter in the target area, then one has the odds of loosing units to a cost of 8.5 I.P.C.'s (3/6 * 12 + 1/6 * 15). On the other hand the enemy has the odds of loosing 11.5 I.P.C.'s (4/6 * 12 + 3.5)!!! The question is if the enemy chooses to use his fighter to intercept the escort??

If one chooses to perform a SBR whithout fighter cover, then one has the odds of loosing units to a cost of 10 I.P.C.'s (3/6 * 15 + 1/6 * 15), where as the enemy has the odds of loosing 5.5 I.P.C.'s (1/6 * 12 + 3.5)!!! :wink:

What we have learned here is that this rule pracrtically reduceses the bombers range to 4! But there is another thing that is very interesting with this rule, and that is when one player has developed Heavy Bombers. Then it’s worth building a stock pile of fighters in all IC territories, except new or captured ones (se rules for ‘New Complexes’)!

B.Andersson, Game Master