13L G40 seththenewb(allies+10) vs MagicQ(axis)

boldfresh

are the attackers on the left? if the subs are on attack and there are no defending subs, then there’s not at big issue right? if the issue is that the subs attack and a casualty choice is required before the rest of the attack roll is done, then that is easily solved.

MagicQ

@MagicQ:

@seththenewb:

It doesn’t matter what you rolled as that dice rolling was illegal. I stated it and asked that the combat be done via forum. You blatantly ignored me and proceeded anyway.

And it seems like you still don’t get why subs rolling first, be they defending or attacking subs, when destroyers are present is an issue. I’ll wait for Gamerman01 to weigh in before I make any further comment.

Don’t mean to ignore you or anything. I just feel it make no difference in this case. Italian subs roll first and the rest of the Italian fleets roll right next to it. There is nothing in between. And defender have to choose 2 warships as casualties and there is no other option.

I am talking about round 2 since you have accepted round 1 result.

boldfresh

@Boldfresh:

are the attackers on the left? �if the subs are on attack and there are no defending subs, then there’s not at big issue right? �if the issue is that the subs attack and a casualty choice is required before the rest of the attack roll is done, then that is easily solved.

Magic,

he may be considering to save a destroyer or not. so he wants to see your entire attack roll before being asked to choose his casualties.

boldfresh

@Boldfresh:

@Boldfresh:

are the attackers on the left? �if the subs are on attack and there are no defending subs, then there’s not at big issue right? �if the issue is that the subs attack and a casualty choice is required before the rest of the attack roll is done, then that is easily solved.

Magic,

he may be considering to save a destroyer or not. so he wants to see your entire attack roll before being asked to choose his casualties.

and he is entitled to see the full attack roll before having to choose casualties in round 2.

MagicQ

@Boldfresh:

@Boldfresh:

are the attackers on the left? �if the subs are on attack and there are no defending subs, then there’s not at big issue right? �if the issue is that the subs attack and a casualty choice is required before the rest of the attack roll is done, then that is easily solved.

Magic,

he may be considering to save a destroyer or not. so he wants to see your entire attack roll before being asked to choose his casualties.

Can’t save 1 dd. Only 2 UK warships left and Italian subs hit 2.

boldfresh

i don’t see the issue then. seth can you elaborate?

gamerman01

This is a little sticky. Let’s talk about this first.

We all agree that the first round stands, because there was only 1 sub hit and Seth would have definitely taken a hit to the battleship after the first round volley.
So Italy scores 6 hits, which includes 1 from the sub.
Seth takes hit to battleship, 2 hits to carrier, 2 destroyers, 1 cruiser
Allies score 7 hits and Magic takes 2 hits to carrier, 3 destroyers, 2 subs

OK, so then

Wait. I see Bold jumped in. I will continue after I get caught up here.

seth4god

@Boldfresh:

i don’t see the issue then. seth can you elaborate?

Sub combat on triplea is handled illegally. I stated so after the first round and asked him to continue the battle on the forum. I also warned him that I wouldn’t feel compelled to accept the combat results if he rolled further sub combat via triplea.

I decided to accept the first round since I didn’t know what he knew about the triplea issue and decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I also made sure he knew what the issue was so he’d know in the future.

It doesn’t matter what the results are if you do something illegally. Note that I hadn’t seen the combat result prior to issuing my warning about not accepting the dice rolls. This isn’t something that I started protesting AFTER the fact, this is something that I made him aware of BEFORE he continued the roll. Not my fault he ignored both the rules and my explicitly stated wish for him to roll the sub combat on the forum.

MagicQ

@Gamerman01:

This is a little sticky. Let’s talk about this first.

We all agree that the first round stands, because there was only 1 sub hit and Seth would have definitely taken a hit to the battleship after the first round volley.
So Italy scores 6 hits, which includes 1 from the sub.
Seth takes hit to battleship, 2 hits to carrier, 2 destroyers, 1 cruiser
Allies score 7 hits and Magic takes 2 hits to carrier, 3 destroyers, 2 subs

OK, so then

Wait. I see Bold jumped in. I will continue after I get caught up here.

Correct.

seth4god

@seththenewb:

Ok and Nope

Reroll after the 2nd round since you ignored my stated wish.

I should say reroll the 2nd Rd, not after the 2nd round.

gamerman01

Magic, you had no way of knowing that you would score 2 hits with the subs when you decided to roll.

Magic, did you see Seth’s post requesting that you roll the rest on the forum? If so, why did you not respond?

seth4god

@Gamerman01:

Magic, you had no way of knowing that you would score 2 hits with the subs when you decided to roll.

Magic, did you see Seth’s post requesting that you roll the rest on the forum? If so, why did you not respond?

He did indeed see that post because that’s the same post that I gave OOL in.

gamerman01

@Gamerman01:

Magic, you had no way of knowing that you would score 2 hits with the subs when you decided to roll.

The problem is, that if you had scored 1 hit, you would have had to choose a casualty before continuing. Seth should not have to make that choice at that point (before seeing the rest of your roll).

Seth did request that you stop and roll the rest on the forum, and warned that he would not recognize the rest of the rolls if you didn’t stop. However, I don’t think it’s fair to take your dice away, because at that point you did have a high chance of wiping Seth anyway.

There were only 2 ships of Seth remaining, however, there was a chance Seth could save a destroyer to ward off surprise strikes in round 3, or save a battleship that could possibly survive the battle.

This is my ruling. I do not think it is fair to re-roll from round 2, however I think Seth deserves some compensation for you improperly rolling the battle on TripleA after he did everything he could to explain to you why that was inappropriate and technically illegal. I believe that Italy should take off 1 unit that survived the Z92 battle to compensate.

Is that satisfactory to both of you?

MagicQ

Most of time I play this way.

As the attacker I roll attacker’s dice, if any ool is needed, I would save and send to defender, if not, I will go on playing.
In this case, no need to pause.

If I hit 1 in this case, then I would definitely wait for opponent’s order. But that’s not the case.

gamerman01

@MagicQ:

Most of time I play this way.

As the attacker I roll attacker’s dice, if any ool is needed, I would save and send to defender, if not, I will go on playing.
In this case, no need to pause.

If I hit 1 in this case, then I would definitely wait for opponent’s order. But that’s not the case.

This is exactly the point, and you apparently still don’t realize it.

If you hit 1, you would have had to ask Seth for a casualty choice BUT IT WOULD BE PREMATURE
Seth does not have to choose Destroyer or Battleship until seeing all the rest of your units fire. Triple A makes this impossible.

MagicQ

If I hit 1, there is no way I would continue rolling dice without asking Seth.

Here, Subs hit 2 and the software automatically take 2 ships off and I don’t even think I should ask Seth for anything.

gamerman01

@MagicQ:

If I hit 1, there is no way I would continue rolling dice without asking Seth.

Here, Subs hit 2 and the software automatically take 2 ships off and I don’t even think I should ask Seth for anything.

I know, Magic!
I guess I have to say it a 3rd time, more slowly.

If you had scored 1 hit, you would have asked Seth, just like you said.

And Seth would have to decide Destroyer or Battleship, but he should not have to make any decisions according to the rulebook, until you roll the rest of your attacking force and see how many hits you got in total. He is having to make a decision without all the relevant information that he is entitled to have at that point.
If you were playing table top face to face, you would not ask him for a casualty choice after the 2 subs roll. You would roll the 2 subs, keep track of how many sub hits there will be, and roll the rest of your units. Then Seth would choose his casualties, including the appropriate number of boats.
I know you got 2 hits so it didn’t matter, but that is irrelevant because you went ahead and rolled in Triple A when there was a very real likelihood that you would score 1 hit and then you would have a problem.

Surely you understand what we’re saying now?
You realize I wouldn’t be unreasonable to demand that you go back and re-roll from round 2 and take away all your great dice, but I am settling on a compromise that I think is fair, that Italy should take off 1 unit of your choice from Z92 survivors.

gamerman01

And in the future, you should roll sub battles out on the forum when enemy destroyers are present, unless there is only 1 type of boat that could be hit by the subs.
Also in the future, I respectfully advise you to respond to your opponent’s concerns before continuing the game and rolling more dice. Thank you.

MagicQ

Hi Seth

If you believe any dice that involved with subs could be invalid, then the whole game could be invalid since the very beginning of round 1 Germany. That would be ridiculous.

but I think you are not happy about the RAF’s roll of the second battle round. And I do feel sorry for the bad dice you get.

MagicQ

@Gamerman01:

@MagicQ:

If I hit 1, there is no way I would continue rolling dice without asking Seth.

Here, Subs hit 2 and the software automatically take 2 ships off and I don’t even think I should ask Seth for anything.

I know, Magic!
I guess I have to say it a 3rd time, more slowly.

If you had scored 1 hit, you would have asked Seth, just like you said.

And Seth would have to decide Destroyer or Battleship, but he should not have to make any decisions according to the rulebook, until you roll the rest of your attacking force and see how many hits you got in total. He is having to make a decision without all the relevant information that he is entitled to have at that point.
If you were playing table top face to face, you would not ask him for a casualty choice after the 2 subs roll. You would roll the 2 subs, keep track of how many sub hits there will be, and roll the rest of your units. Then Seth would choose his casualties, including the appropriate number of boats.
I know you got 2 hits so it didn’t matter, but that is irrelevant because you went ahead and rolled in Triple A when there was a very real likelihood that you would score 1 hit and then you would have a problem.

Surely you understand what we’re saying now?
You realize I wouldn’t be unreasonable to demand that you go back and re-roll from round 2 and take away all your great dice, but I am settling on a compromise that I think is fair, that Italy should take off 1 unit of your choice from Z92 survivors.

OK then. I will accept it.

13L G40 seththenewb(allies+10) vs MagicQ(axis)

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