Bidding - examples?

@marshmallowofwar said in Common bid elements?:

Just so are all aware, the ANZAC infantry in New Guinea is not a legal bid.

Marsh

In face-to-face games at home or play by forum games on this website, bid parameters are whatever players agree. Although I do acknowledge that it lies outside the suggested defaults for our league here.

It wouldn’t surprise me if other venues have fixed bid rules, but you may want to specify.

2 Chinese fighters

@freh said in Bids for allies - 60???:

Wow, I’ve been away from the game so things must have shifted and strategy must be evovling. I just can’t imagine losing with the opportunity to put $60 worth of allied units before the game starts. Are there any patterns to bids? Does it get concentrated in one nation (defending UK against initial German attacks, or giving Russia some more offensive bite) or is it spread out?

As I said my gaming group in Seattle has gone up to $60. I am not sure that is true for the general community. The placement of the Bid depends on the Player. Sometimes it all goes in Russia, sometimes it all goes to UK Europe. Personally I think that is six of one half a dozen of another. Bid units in Russia protect Moscow so the Allies do not need to help Russia defend their capital. Bid units for UK Europe assist UK in defense of London and in taking out the Italians much faster which allows them to assist Russia either with direct unit intervention for the defense of Moscow or intense pressure on the Atlantic Wall. The end result is basically the same. Either the UK is strong and gets help to Russia fast or the UK is weak and struggles but never has to send help to Russia because Russia is strong. Personally I like a 50-50 balance between UK Europe and Russia. Best of both worlds. :)

One constant is that normally at least 80% up to all 100% goes on the Europe side of the board versus the Pacific side of the board.

@taamvan:

I should clarify n correct my past comments re how the bid is used in tournaments;  In tournaments; you can only buy units with the bid.  You cannot buy bases or factories (right away), and you cant save money.

However, at Gencon/Origins/Smorey Swamp TN, you can put all the units in one square.   This apparently didn’t come up in the earlier tournament in 2016, but no-one there objected to putting the higher bids all in one square in 2017, which is not really a problem in most editions but it adds some choices when the bid is higher.

42.2 average bids 7-12 to Allies
G42 average bids 0 to either
Classic automatic bid of 9 to Axis
G40 no tourney bid that I know of but bids average 8-20 in league

Since the bid is a house rule, you can apply it however you like.   The bid should be a game changer.   The bids that place a fighter into the German open or a sub (or 2) into Taranto change the game and change blowout battles into more equal contests.

That is interesting that in tournaments you are not allowed to save money.

Like I said earlier, the main reason I like to save most of the bid has to do with the fact that the UK will know where it needs to focus its resources much better at the start of its second round compared to round 1.  Although I will admit a sub for the Med and fighter on Scotland is very good value and tough to beat.

from what I can see when running sims, I test with germany attacking with every landunit that can reach (7 I , 4 M, 3 A,  6 T ) V (1 AAA, 6 I, 2 A,  , 2T , 1 Ftr)  it gives germany 99.9% chance of winning about 24 IPC of loss

If you compare that too
(7 I , 4 M, 3 A,  6 T, 2 F, 2Tac ) V (1 AAA, 12 I, 2 A,  , 2T , 1 Ftr) , it gives about 99% chance of winning with 46 IPC loss

So, those 18 IPC used, gives immidiatly about 22 IPC lost for germany, and keeps 2 ftrs and 2 tacs away from the brit.

(if germany brings less planes to france, the chance of winning for the defender goes up fast, and the losses goes upp really fast)

Flip coin or roll dice for each team
Winning team can choose to call “Axis” or “Allies” or “Pass”
Once a side has been called, the other side will be getting resources if any
Choosing team calls “Axis” (meaning Allies bid of 0 or 2)
Other team responds by accepting Allies as Out of Box setup or offering some amount of IPCs to the other team to PLAY the Allies (thus taking the Axis)

“We will play Axis, and Give the allies 17”  (binary choice;  either choose the Allies, or raise the bid to the allies in return for playing the axis)

No cash can be kept
No change will be given
No bases or factories can be built
Like units only with like units (navy units added where you have like navy, land and air forces where you have at least 1 ground unit in a territory at game start)
Only 1 unit to place per territory* (this is a tournament rule; you could also permit stacking but it makes the bid quite different)

therefore, bids such as 2 (and 11, and 17) do not divide optimally into 1 or 2 specific units some money will be lost

Everyone seems to differ on whether the bid is needed, but not necessarily on where.  I have seen some players give it to the US or China, but the prevailing wisdom is that the best use of the bid is to buy a sub, destroyer and some ground units for UK in north Africa.  A UK destroyer can protect the Canadian destroyer, or the Cruiser in SZ 91, so that stuff is more likely to survive and become the nucleus of your new fleet for later in the game.

Even better, if you can get some ground units or Taranto add-ins (Tirano Suggests-  1 armor, 2 artillery in Alex, Egypt, Sudan, 1 DD with Cruiser or a sub etc for 15-17 bid G40), then the Italians never really have the odds to become a raging threat in the Med, and they are less likely to get income over 20 at some point.  With the extra bid pieces, the war for the middle east is more of an easy win, so you can establish your bases in Egypt or your navy down there without many Italians surviving the first turn.

other popular places to put the bid units are to add Russian infantry or artillery, Chinese infantry, etc to add some staying power.  Infantry are too weak and slow (and for USSR and China) support units might be better because they have so few.  You still can only place infantry as china, note.    The problem with this approach is making a difference with what you do place without it getting pretty quickly killed, but this could help you protect directly against Germany during Barbarossa somehow.    There are tons of ideas about this but no consensus.

the bid helps handicap the teams and give the Allies a better chance at cracking one of the Axis.  However, the bid doesn’t do a good job of addressing the dogpile and running program aspects of the game (attack Russia with everything is the critical path to victory)

G40 typical bids run over 15+, usually as UK units
G42 bid needs to be at least 8, to save the UK BB on G1.

Back to the OP. One other point I’m coming to see is devastating is to land 4 ground units on Kwangsi J1. These units really make a big difference in being able to hold on to Yunnan. While you can’t get the TTs back to Japan J2 unless you combine a Naval base on Hainan or Kwangsi, the main game in Asia isn’t to get Japanese land units on Asia but to deny the Burma Rd. If you can do that, your one step on the way to Axis victory in the Pacific. One of the land units can come from Okinawa, two from Japan so you are only relocating one unit within Asia, the artillery from Manchuria, but in a very advantageous way.

@Young:

I don’t play TripleA, but I imagine one can’t change the initial setup. However, in our table top games, players like to rotate different sides and nations fairly so everyone gets a chance to play something different. To achieve this, I think the Russians should trade their fighter in Moscow for a S. Bomber, the Americans should trade their destroyer in Hawaii for a Battleship, and the UK should trade their Mech Infantry in London for a Tank.

Maybe upgrade the cruiser instead

That should balance the game without the need to bid… What do you think.