Operation Dark Skies JamesAleman(axis) vs Allweneedislove

I appreciate the responses

One of the big reasons I posted was so I would get notifications when moves were made  :-)

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round: 7

Politics - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 2 armour, 1 carrier, 2 destroyers, 4 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from Tambov to Volgograd
                  Germans take Volgograd from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Tambov to Samara
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Vyborg
            2 bombers moved from Tambov to Samara
            2 bombers moved from Tambov to Vyborg
            2 bombers moved from Germany to Romania
            1 bomber moved from Germany to Romania
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Germany to Romania
            1 infantry moved from France to Holland Belgium
            1 artillery moved from France to Holland Belgium
            1 mech_infantry moved from Germany to Holland Belgium
            1 bomber moved from Germany to Holland Belgium
            3 fighters moved from 113 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
            7 bombers moved from Western Germany to United Kingdom

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round: 7

Politics - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 2 armour, 1 carrier, 2 destroyers, 4 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from Tambov to Volgograd
                  Germans take Volgograd from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Tambov to Samara
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Vyborg
            2 bombers moved from Tambov to Samara
            2 bombers moved from Tambov to Vyborg
            2 bombers moved from Germany to Romania
            1 bomber moved from Germany to Romania
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Germany to Romania
            1 infantry moved from France to Holland Belgium
            1 artillery moved from France to Holland Belgium
            1 mech_infantry moved from Germany to Holland Belgium
            1 bomber moved from Germany to Holland Belgium
            3 fighters moved from 113 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
            7 bombers moved from Western Germany to United Kingdom

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Holland Belgium
                Germans attack with 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 3 fighters, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                British defend with 2 infantry
                Germans win, taking Holland Belgium from British with 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 3 fighters, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for British: 2 infantry
            Battle in Romania
                Germans attack with 3 bombers and 2 mech_infantrys
                British defend with 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Romania from British with 3 bombers and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -1
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for British: 1 infantry
            Battle in Samara
                Germans attack with 2 bombers and 1 infantry
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Samara from Russians with 2 bombers and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Vyborg
                Germans attack with 2 bombers and 1 infantry
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Vyborg from Russians with 2 bombers and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Air Battle in United Kingdom
                Germans attacks with 7 units heading to United Kingdom
                Air Battle is over, the remaining bombers go on to their targets
            Strategic bombing raid in United Kingdom
                Bombing raid in United Kingdom rolls: 5 and causes: 5 damage to unit: airfield
                Bombing raid in United Kingdom rolls: 5,5,6,4,8 and causes: 20 damage to unit: factory_major
                Bombing raid in United Kingdom rolls: 5 and causes: 5 damage to unit: harbour
                Bombing raid in United Kingdom causes 30 damage total.  Damaged units is as follows: airfield = 5, factory_major = 20, harbour = 5
            Cleaning up after air battles

Non Combat Move - Germans
            3 fighters moved from Holland Belgium to 113 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Holland Belgium to Western Germany
            7 bombers moved from United Kingdom to Western Germany
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to Northern Italy
            3 infantry moved from Germany to Western Germany
            3 aaGuns moved from Germany to Western Germany
            3 bombers moved from Romania to Western Germany
            4 tactical_bombers moved from Tambov to Novgorod
            3 fighters moved from Tambov to Novgorod
            2 bombers moved from Vyborg to Novgorod
            2 bombers moved from Samara to Novgorod
            1 aaGun, 9 armour, 5 artilleries, 14 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Tambov to Rostov
            1 mech_infantry moved from Ukraine to Rostov
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Russia to Rostov
            3 armour moved from Novgorod to Bryansk
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Eastern Poland to Bryansk
            1 artillery moved from France to Western Germany
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Northern Italy to Western Germany
            1 aaGun moved from Russia to Samara

Place Units - Germans
            2 armour and 1 mech_infantry placed in Ukraine
            3 mech_infantrys placed in Russia
            4 infantry placed in Western Germany
            1 carrier and 2 destroyers placed in 113 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Germans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 3
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 93 Sea Zone. Rolls: 2,1
            Germans collect 50 PUs (3 lost to blockades); end with 50 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 55 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 15 PUs; end with 70 PUs

I figured you were not going to intercept against 7 bombers, if you do, just use the forum roller and remove the air base bomber first, then the Naval base, then the last bomber on damage (in case you hit all three).

Sorry, just trying to save time.

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round: 7

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 factory_minor, 2 fighters and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 3 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens;

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 39 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Malaya
            2 artilleries, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 39 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Shan State
            2 artilleries, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 39 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Malaya
            1 fighter moved from 39 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 39 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 39 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone
            2 battleships, 4 carriers, 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from 39 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from 37 Sea Zone to Shan State
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to 36 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to 20 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Anhwe to Shantung
            1 infantry moved from Buryatia to Yakut S.S.R.
                  Japanese take Yakut S.S.R. from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Siberia to Sakha
                  Japanese take Sakha from Russians

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round: 7

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 factory_minor, 2 fighters and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 3 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens;

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 39 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Malaya
            2 artilleries, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 39 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Shan State
            2 artilleries, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 39 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Malaya
            1 fighter moved from 39 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 39 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 39 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone
            2 battleships, 4 carriers, 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from 39 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from 37 Sea Zone to Shan State
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to 36 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to 20 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Anhwe to Shantung
            1 infantry moved from Buryatia to Yakut S.S.R.
                  Japanese take Yakut S.S.R. from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Siberia to Sakha
                  Japanese take Sakha from Russians

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in 38 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber
                ANZAC defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese win with 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 destroyer
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 destroyer
            Battle in 20 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 tactical_bomber
                ANZAC defend with 1 transport; Americans defend with 2 submarines and 1 transport
                2 submarines owned by the Americans Submerged
                Japanese win with 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
                Casualties for Americans: 1 transport
            Battle in 36 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 tactical_bomber
                ANZAC defend with 1 transport; Americans defend with 1 submarine and 1 transport
                1 submarine owned by the Americans Submerged
                Japanese win with 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
                Casualties for Americans: 1 transport
            Battle in Shantung
                Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                Americans defend with 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                Japanese win, taking Shantung from Chinese with 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for Americans: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
            Battle in Malaya
            Battle in Shan State
                Japanese attack with 2 artilleries, 3 fighters, 2 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers
                British defend with 4 artilleries, 7 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                Japanese win, taking Malaya from UK_Pacific, taking Shan State from UK_Pacific with 1 artillery, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 31
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Casualties for British: 4 artilleries, 7 infantry and 1 mech_infantry

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 20 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun moved from Anhwe to Shantung
            5 bombers moved from Russia to Siam
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to Korea
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to Korea
            2 aaGuns and 3 infantry moved from Amur to Korea
            5 fighters moved from Japan to Korea
            1 fighter moved from Japan to Korea
            2 fighters moved from Japan to 37 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 38 Sea Zone to Siam
            3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from Shan State to Siam

Place Units - Japanese
            1 factory_minor placed in Korea
            1 submarine placed in 6 Sea Zone
            2 fighters placed in Japan

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 15
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 20 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,2,6,2
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 19 Sea Zone. Rolls: 5,3,5,6,1,2,2,6,5,6,3,6,2,6,3,1,4,5,2
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 6 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,3,1,4,1,3,4,2,2,6,5,2,5,1,2,3,1,4,4
            Japanese collect 13 PUs (15 lost to blockades); end with 16 PUs total

Do me a favor and move a ftr and tac from Siam to the carrier fleet please.

I couldn’t play Japan and Italy any worse, that is the power of the German bomber strategy.

I’m also eating my words about 3 turns, I’m deciding I’ll give reviving Japan a go to see if it can be done, I think Germany is ok for now. (Watch me lose Berlin ;) )

@JamesAleman:

I’m also eating my words about 3 turns, I’m deciding I’ll give reviving Japan a go to see if it can be done, I think Germany is ok for now. (Watch me lose Berlin ;) )

Why wouldn’t you just try to win the game and get your 8 cities in Europe, and prove your point?  Or do you think you need to revive Japan to do that because it’s going to take many rounds?

It’s going to take as much time as it takes to slow march from Rostov to Egypt I believe. At that point, either London will fall or Egypt will. Japan is going to try to stabilize its front in an effort to draw resources away from Europe. I just did 30 damage to London’s facilities, so he will have to determine what to repair if anything. Garrisoning Egypt and London is going to prove difficult I believe, I suspect his fleet will have to leave in two turns, once he runs out of French blockers. Then the window to attack London will present itself. Basically, you will see the versatility of the bombers when they can strike both locations from where they are based. (I realize he can strike W.Germany with a lot, but if he fails to kill all of my bombers and Britain loses its fleets air cover that should speed my timetable.

Either way, the point I would like to convey is this: I feel like I can be sloppy and inefficient to a degree because of the strength of a bomber strategy and still possibly win. If my first test game looks this bad, it should give you something to consider for when it doesn’t.

Imagine if I played Japan conventionally, and made an effort in Africa with Italy. Can you see an issue? Germany next turn will produce nearly as much as the US (with you might agree minimal help from the other axis beyond Italy’s starting pieces and turn 1 production). Italy’s production is likely to increase in Russia’s Eastern front. Australia is in danger of collapse if Japan sees an opportunity as all of their resources are elsewhere (we’ll see what he does before I decide where to go). London is now feeling the effects of a bombing campaign while I stage for a final assault that can occur at 2 locations. From Novgorod, my Eastern air force is now able to hit the allied navy, and the bomber force will be reunited (please note, I only have 15 bombers this game, I stopped building them early when the fall of Moscow was apparent) I usually have 5 more, and can still produce some once I am confident the Russian task force is large enough to complete its goal. What happens to Germany’s production if I fart around and go after China with Germany? Either way, I do need to reduce India’s production, and I am poised to do that this next turn. (depends on Japan’s land units surviving).

Now granted, there are 3 choices for playing Russia. Conservative retreat to Moscow and hold, Conservative delay factories falling (this game), and aggressive delay German advance. We have tested this against those three already. Now I am using the public to flesh out any tweaks, and to see if a good counter presents itself. We are still working on one as well, but I’m not confident it will work.

I certainly hope you will have time for a game with me Gamerman01 when this game concludes. Remember, my opponent was forewarned about my strategy and my goals which is seldom advisable. His bomber response is going to run into an issue, the Europe landscape favors the axis in terms of landing sites. We have done an all bomber 2 carrier build a year ago and had reassuring results back in an alpha 2 game. But doesn’t that prove my point, the best answer to the Bomber “imbalance” may prove to be “bombers”…Point made.

What I have found is this, the bombers greatly speed the implosion of Russia, both defenses (factory hold, or Moscow hold) result in Berlin pausing, producing fodder and then proceeding. We have found few opportunities for Moscow to advance more than 1 space from its Capital because of Italy’s can opening effect and Germany’s fast movers and air power. I can bomb Russia from as far back as Eastern Poland, thus buying the time to build fodder out of the Russian factories while the Russian stack barely grows.

So the bombers increase initial conquest time, but for a limited duration 5-7 turns, at which point conventional tactics resume with Germany’s increased production. Now the allies are in danger of being out produced and out maneuvered. This means Germany can take its time and fart around if needed.

The large bomber force also greatly increases the amount of IPCs that must be “sunk” into building a “conventional” navy’s defense and this necessarily draws away from that navy’s landing power if this approach is used. The bomber is a cheap “naval” piece that can hit land and bomb as well, performing 3 roles that when serially performed lead to the collapse of the allies. The weakness to this plan is that it must be done serially, while I threaten many fronts, at best only 2 per turn can be successfully assaulted. This takes time, but you systematically complete these tasks to the allies demise.

And finally, America is not the only nation at this point that can just produce all bombers….So can Berlin. That phase will begin as Rostov’s force approaches its target. Each bomber built will match the USA builds and force UK to defend 2 locations per bomber…

Plus Auswanderersland is my version of Khan Noonien Singh. “He tasks me”, “He tasks me”. (sorry for the Star Trek reference)

He thinks I have at best 4 turns with Germany to make something happen, and he thinks Japan is done. So I am trying to see who is right, and which one of us should be labeled “disciple”. Don’t worry, we are old buddies going back 23 years to our high school axis days and teasing each other is necessary. ;)

@Gamerman01:

@JamesAleman:

I’m also eating my words about 3 turns, I’m deciding I’ll give reviving Japan a go to see if it can be done, I think Germany is ok for now. (Watch me lose Berlin ;) )

Why wouldn’t you just try to win the game and get your 8 cities in Europe, and prove your point?  Or do you think you need to revive Japan to do that because it’s going to take many rounds?

Because of the interest in the time that Germany has to conquer, I challenged JJ to revive Japan to see if he could hold the line.

As far as playing you, I am mildly interested, but trying to focus my A&A time on league games
I don’t doubt that buying bombers is very effective for Germany, and I wouldn’t enjoy facing them
The large increase in territories over previous versions of A&A makes movement even more valuable than it was before.  Also, before Anniversary, bombers cost 15 and now they are only 12, as you have also pointed out.  The +2 bombing damage is also nasty.  And the tactic of mostly bombers is sneaky because most players are used to not worrying too much about all air because traditionally, all air strikes against ground (and air) forces is a bad trade.  Traditionally.  When incomes were around 20-30, fighters cost 12, and bombers cost 15.  And you could get increased production and produce men for 2 IPC’s each.  You know, for those of us who have been playing for 20+ years, the things we learned from Classic still stick with us, I think, and sometimes to our detriment.

Now you have 12 IPC bombers that can often fly 7 spaces instead of 6.  You have transports that are auto-kill, so you’re not losing 15 IPC bombers to ace rolls, with the defender’s transports sometimes even surviving.
Perhaps you have found an exploit to Larry’s rule changes (I think on multiple occasions our revered game designer has failed to accurately anticipate all the ramifications of his changes - Global 1940 is Exhibit A) and bombers are too cheap.

After all, when you play tech there are also 2 technologies that boost their capabilities even further.  (Thank goodness Larry finally saw the light and reduced LRA to +1, as I used to house rule it in AA50)

Sorry, this is in a game thread - I’ll quit now.