Drones

No one is debating the efficacy of drones.

I have already addressed your points earlier in this thread. I’d point you to Garg’s earlier post pointing out the issue isn’t the drones. It is whether the use of drones constitutes war or murder and whether we’re executing criminals before they’ve committed a crime.

The question is whether or not what we’re doing with them is right, whether the powers that be are being honest with us and themselves.

My point about Stark is when a man who’d committed a capital crime needed to be put to death, the man with the power and responsibility for making that decision went out, looked the man in the eye, heard what he had to say for himself, and then swung the sword with his own hands. I don’t think any of the people making the decisions on drones have that kind of honor or even the concept of that kind of honor.

The question is not whether or not we are using the right tool but whether we should be doing the job at all.

Well, if you are arguing the bigger picture - i.e. why we are fighting Islamic Extremism or why we are fighting in Afghanistan, then that is a whole other can of worms.  I’m just arguing that drone strikes are no different than any other long range weapon.

If you are insinuating that a drone pilot has no honor, and only does as ordered even if he/she feels it is wrong, than again that is a whole other topic.  If you mean the big wigs ordering ‘hits’ on known terrorists, then what would you have them do instead?

I agree that drone strikes are simply another long range weapon and I am not saying that the pilots have no honor.

I am not going to open the other can of worms that you’ve correctly identified.

@frimmel:

I agree that drone strikes are simply another long range weapon and I am not saying that the pilots have no honor.

I am not going to open the other can of worms that you’ve correctly identified.

Fair enough- I am not trying to be combative, just debating.  Thanks for your input.

We’re the problem because of the Moral picture we’ve painted ourselves in…

Is it murder, or is it war? Who’s to say.

Oh the days of imperialism are missed…

@Gargantua:

We’re the problem because of the Moral picture we’ve painted ourselves in…

Is it murder, or is it war? Who’s to say.

Oh the days of imperialism are missed…

I guess it depends on your point of view.  One thing is certain- the western democracies are at war with extremist Islam.

Skip extremism.  From an objective/historical/factual point of view, Islam in general is a more accurate description.

It’s definetly over the 50% hump.

@BJCard:

@frimmel:

I agree that drone strikes are simply another long range weapon and I am not saying that the pilots have no honor.

I am not going to open the other can of worms that you’ve correctly identified.

Fair enough- I am not trying to be combative, just debating.  Thanks for your input.

We’re good. We’re in the same game and the same page of the rulebook.  :-)

@Gargantua:

Skip extremism.  From an objective/historical/factual point of view, Islam in general is a more accurate description.

It’s definetly over the 50% hump.

You really think that the western world is at war with over 50% of Muslims?  Wow, I hope that’s not the case- something like 1.6 Billion people in the world are Muslim…

@BJCard:

@Gargantua:

Skip extremism.  From an objective/historical/factual point of view, Islam in general is a more accurate description.

It’s definetly over the 50% hump.

You really think that the western world is at war with over 50% of Muslims?  Wow, I hope that’s not the case- something like 1.6 Billion people in the world are Muslim…

If it weren’t for Garg being 'Nadian, I’d say we’re American: we’re at war with everything.

@Jermofoot:

@BJCard:

@Gargantua:

Skip extremism.  From an objective/historical/factual point of view, Islam in general is a more accurate description.

It’s definetly over the 50% hump.

You really think that the western world is at war with over 50% of Muslims?  Wow, I hope that’s not the case- something like 1.6 Billion people in the world are Muslim…

If it weren’t for Garg being 'Nadian, I’d say we’re American: we’re at war with everything.

Nah, we aren’t at war with Easter Island.

Nah, we aren’t at war with Easter Island.

That is only because your Generals could not find it on a map!

@BJCard:

@Gargantua:

Skip extremism.  From an objective/historical/factual point of view, Islam in general is a more accurate description.

It’s definetly over the 50% hump.

You really think that the western world is at war with over 50% of Muslims?  Wow, I hope that’s not the case- something like 1.6 Billion people in the world are Muslim…

Well lets look at the last few years…

Iraq - Muslim Nation
Afghanistan - Muslim Nation
Iran (Bombings / Assassinations / Rhetoric) - Muslim Nation
Libya (Supporting rebels / air campaign) - Muslim Nation
Syria (Just watch today’s news, "America’s next step in Syria) Muslim Nation
Yugoslavia/Bosnia - Muslim Nation
Somalia - Muslim Nation

You’re right, I don’t see anything in common (Sarcasm).

Well lets look at the last few years…

Iraq - Muslim Nation
Afghanistan - Muslim Nation
Iran (Bombings / Assassinations / Rhetoric) - Muslim Nation
Libya (Supporting rebels / air campaign) - Muslim Nation
Syria (Just watch today’s news, "America’s next step in Syria) Muslim Nation
Yugoslavia/Bosnia - Muslim Nation
Somalia - Muslim Nation

You’re right, I don’t see anything in common (Sarcasm).

Iraq- technically we are not at war with them now
Afghanistan- technically we are not at war with them, but we are fighting the Taliban
Iran- no
Libya- yes there was a quick war here
Syria- I doubt we put troops on the ground here
Yugoslavia/Bosnia- haven’t been at war there for a while…

There are a ton of muslim-majority nations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim-majority_countries

So, yes, we are at war with far less than 50% of Muslims.

Not to mention the majority of those we initiated…but that won’t stop Garg from rejecting reality.

@Jermofoot:

Not to mention the majority of those we initiated…but that won’t stop Garg from rejecting reality.

Oh so America initated 9/11?

I was unaware.

@BJCard:

Well lets look at the last few years…

Iraq - Muslim Nation
Afghanistan - Muslim Nation
Iran (Bombings / Assassinations / Rhetoric) - Muslim Nation
Libya (Supporting rebels / air campaign) - Muslim Nation
Syria (Just watch today’s news, "America’s next step in Syria) Muslim Nation
Yugoslavia/Bosnia - Muslim Nation
Somalia - Muslim Nation

You’re right, I don’t see anything in common (Sarcasm).

Afghanistan- technically we are not at war with them, but we are fighting the Taliban

Taliban- Muslim

Killing people with Drones in Pakistan, and Yemen

Pakistan - Muslim
Yemen - Muslim

Iran does also qualify.

Oh and what’s the U.S. committment in Mali?  I know the french sent troops there?

Oh wait

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/05/01/301242/us-deploys-troops-in-mali-backing-french/

US Deploys troops in Mali - Muslim Nation

Let’s look at this a different way… how many non-muslim nations are we in -conflict- with?

@Gargantua:

Let’s look at this a different way… how many non-muslim nations are we in -conflict- with?

Canada are in conflicts right now? oh oh ,I should watch more news I guess.