+1 like
I honestly don’t see a viable early sealion
I dont see a sealion period. If you have the luxury of trying it later in the game then you probably already have Paris and then ou should also have Rome or Moscow!
@Uncrustable:
SBR is critical to a success full seal lion on G2 in global 40
Your not so worried about SBRing capitals before land assaults because your not wasting money (tons of it) on transports and their escorts
If you buy a bunch if navy and all you can take are some low IPC tt surrounding Britian, then fail lol
It’s pretty much take London or gg once you blow that much money on transports and a fleet big enough to protect them
I never said to not take London, just that you can assault it from Yorkshire. Also, where is the harm in trying it? These aren’t real people you are killing off, if it doesn’t work then who cares. I have no idea why some of you guys are so quick to just shoot down ideas without even trying it.
The Idea is to win the game. You can’t win a game with early sea lion. Also in G40 an early sealion which was in Germany’s favour did not mean a win against the Allies
The Idea is to win the game. You can’t win a game with early sea lion. Also in G40 an early sealion which was in Germany’s favour did not mean a win against the Allies
What were your results when you attempted? What did do you specifically?
One of the problems Germany faces is that the UK starts with 15 inf and canons in England. To counter that Ger needs at least 8 transport ships.
I think Sealion is impossible, but building a few transports will constantly threaten the UK to keep enough troops in England. Plus they can help to conquer russian territory and help transport german troops from the eastern front to Kiel (which is closer to the western front than they get by foot) in one turn. I would keep the number of transports limited to 3 or so.
You don’t have to AA directly, Yorkshire and Scotland are options as well and then march them south. You also don’t have to transport your entire invasion force in one turn. You can land in Scotland without even worrying about mines. Killing France fast is also impossible, but it doesn’t stop people from trying that.
@Texas:
You don’t have to AA directly, Yorkshire and Scotland are options as well and then march them south. You also don’t have to transport your entire invasion force in one turn. You can land in Scotland without even worrying about mines. Killing France fast is also impossible, but it doesn’t stop people from trying that.
yes I’ve also thought of that. the bitching part is you need a second wave of transports to send in reinforcements. I think this may harress the british seriously (certainly of you take in Ireland), but taking London will be a bridge too far i’m afraid. But i’ll certainly give it a try. How many transports do you have in mind?
To be honest, I haven’t had the chance to plan it out that far, still working out the details of keeping the sea lanes clear.
I did once. You can land in Karelia G2 then land in Scotland G3. for that you need to buy 1 transport G1 and a BB and Sub. G2 you land in Karelia with transports and you attack the russian BB in G2 with a German BB and sub/cruiser. In G3 you can take some units from karelia and land in scotland. I would go for 2 or 4 transports. making a ‘chain’ of 2 transports bringing in reinforcements while the other 2 land units.
You can also use the transports to take Norway and Sweden. That should help pay for transport purchase.
@Texas:
You can also use the transports to take Norway and Sweden. That should help pay for transport purchase.
No no, Norway and Sweden thats 8 soldiers on each to kill (they’re 4IPC each right?), so you can expect 4 casualties per country, so the cost of taking them would be at least 12 ipc per country (4 x 3IPC for an inf). You would have to hold on to them at least 3 turns to gain profit from it.
@Texas:
You can also use the transports to take Norway and Sweden.� That should help pay for transport purchase.
No no, Norway and Sweden thats 8 soldiers on each to kill (they’re 4IPC each right?), so you can expect 4 casualties per country, so the cost of taking them would be at least 12 ipc per country (4 x 3IPC for an inf). You would have to hold on to them at least 3 turns to gain profit from it.
Well yeah, but I would bring tanks with me. I wouldn’t do Sea Lion without tanks either.
@Texas:
@Texas:
You can also use the transports to take Norway and Sweden.� That should help pay for transport purchase.
No no, Norway and Sweden thats 8 soldiers on each to kill (they’re 4IPC each right?), so you can expect 4 casualties per country, so the cost of taking them would be at least 12 ipc per country (4 x 3IPC for an inf). You would have to hold on to them at least 3 turns to gain profit from it.
Well yeah, but I would bring tanks with me. I wouldn’t do Sea Lion without tanks either.
Tanks don’t incassate a hit in a landing. Tanks come in from turn 4 so you take Norway or Sweden turn 5 at the earliest. If you take them this late, you must be going for an economic victory.
A neutral only stands up 1 artillery, so there is only a 50% shot of 1 hit on the landing. The tanks will take of the hits during the normal round of combat. The other territory would be taken by land so no landing to worry about there.
I’m not sure what you mean by an economic victory. The cost of attacking in the early rounds is very high and this is why most are struggling with the CPs. They feel that they have to get a bunch done before the Americans arrive. This is strategy that carries over from WWII games. The Allies are having so much success in this game due to the timing of when they go on the offensive, typically after tanks are introduced, which greatly reduce the cost of attacking.
economic victory is when the CP’s have more income than the Allies. So actually taking all the neutral countries (Denmark, Holland, Sweden, Norway). By controlling the North Sea (and with your transports harressing the english coast) can you get more income than the Allies you guess?
economic victory is when the CP’s have more income than the Allies. So actually taking all the neutral countries (Denmark, Holland, Sweden, Norway). By controlling the North Sea (and with your transports harressing the english coast) can you get more income than the Allies you guess?
Maybe…
CP: Ger (35), AH (26), Ott (16), Ger Africa losses (-4), Denmark (2), Norway (4), Sweden (4), Holland (2), Poland (3), Belgium (2), Bulgaria (3), Serbia (2), Romania (3), Albania (2), Arabia (1), Persia (2), Egypt (2), Sevastopol (3), Livonia (2), Scotland (2), Lorraine (2)…Total (114)
Allies: Russia (25), France (24), UK (30), Italy (14), US (20), Africa (eight), Portugal (2), Spain (4), Poland (-3), Venice (-2), Scotland (-2), Lorraine (-2), Egypt (-2), Sevastopal (-3)…Total (111)
This was based on the Ottomans having more success due to the British being harassed directly. If Germany takes Scandinavia, they could push into Finland and beyond, which I didn’t include. I don’t think it’s completely impossible, but of course, it is completely hypothetical at this point.
Planning for a Sealion is definitely thinking outside the box. While I am of the opinion that it is not viable, I still appreciate the discussion/debate.
The three issues I can see are:
1.) The UK can rebuild its fleet-and fast. And it will, at the first sign of German transports. Combined with French reinforcements (BB/CA in sz8), UK can drop 2 BBs or BB/2 subs UK1 if it wants (although a UK2 navy build is far more common). This will make keeping any German invasion fleet alive that much harder.
2.) The British Isles start with 15 land units. These units usually consolidate in London on UK1-2. Thus, Germany needs 8+ transports, and even then will probably not be able to take London cleanly in 1 combat. Which brings me to my last point…
3.) UK can drop 30-40 IPCs of land units in London on its turn. If Germany’s fleet survived the mines/UK fleet, if London was invaded and contested, this will end any hope of Germany conquering it on their follow-up turn.
It has been suggested that Germany take its fleet to sz4 and drop in Scotland. If I’m the Allies, I would one-two the German fleet with France/UK, and drop enough units in London to destroy the German army in Scotland. In the meantime, Germany’s efforts in Europe proper would be severely hampered by the land units (16) that are in Scotland and the 48 IPCs worth of Transports (8 trn, right?) that could have been used for, say, 16 Infantry.
It has also been suggested that Sealion will slow down Britain in India by having to spend money for London. As soon as the German navy has been dispatched, Britain can easily spend its full income in India again. US should also be involved in the war effort by now–not a pretty picture for Germany.
On the other hand, German fighters from Belgium can reach London; perhaps this can help offset the cost of transports/troops to invade?
I am still working the feasibility of this particular plan, so the details are still fuzzy. Responding to you comments:
1. This is the biggest obstacle of the plan, however, for every IPC the UK spends on warships, the less it is spending on troops to land in Europe or India.
2. This is less than what France starts with, so not necessarily a deal breaker. I also don’t thin it is possible to capture London on a single landing either.
3. France can dump 30 IPC or in Paris as well, not to mention everything else that has fallen back. I also have ruled out SZ 9 as a feasible option. One, you have to deal with mines and to prevent having to move transports back and forth risking mines each time you would have to load through an uncontested Belgium (not easy to keep it that way).
The best option I am considering now is to funnel through Norway with half you transports in your home port and the rest between Scotland and Norway. This option also provides a boost in income. Also, half your transports are better protected. This option also puts pressure on Russia from the north.
As far as your comments regarding Germany’s efforts being hampered in mainland Europe is true, you also don’t have to do as much. You don’t even need to attack France since you don’t need to capture Paris.
Like I said, I am still hammering out the details, but I am favoring 6 transports at the moment. Picking up Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland (12 IPCs) helps offset the expenses.
I think the CP has to experiment with Navy.
Has anyone considered a German Conquest of Norway/Sweden to boost income?
+8 goes a long way… and a handful of transports, forces UK to defend london early, buying the ottomans time.
A new front also gets opened up on the Russians.
I’ll agree that alot of the ‘new ideas’ posted in this thread are unconvential, but this is a drastically different game, and there are alot of -untested- possibilities.
