G40.2, do u bid for allies? if so…WHY?

Flip coin or roll dice for each team
Winning team can choose to call “Axis” or “Allies” or “Pass”
Once a side has been called, the other side will be getting resources if any
Choosing team calls “Axis” (meaning Allies bid of 0 or 2)
Other team responds by accepting Allies as Out of Box setup or offering some amount of IPCs to the other team to PLAY the Allies (thus taking the Axis)

“We will play Axis, and Give the allies 17”  (binary choice;  either choose the Allies, or raise the bid to the allies in return for playing the axis)

No cash can be kept
No change will be given
No bases or factories can be built
Like units only with like units (navy units added where you have like navy, land and air forces where you have at least 1 ground unit in a territory at game start)
Only 1 unit to place per territory* (this is a tournament rule; you could also permit stacking but it makes the bid quite different)

therefore, bids such as 2 (and 11, and 17) do not divide optimally into 1 or 2 specific units some money will be lost

Everyone seems to differ on whether the bid is needed, but not necessarily on where.  I have seen some players give it to the US or China, but the prevailing wisdom is that the best use of the bid is to buy a sub, destroyer and some ground units for UK in north Africa.  A UK destroyer can protect the Canadian destroyer, or the Cruiser in SZ 91, so that stuff is more likely to survive and become the nucleus of your new fleet for later in the game.

Even better, if you can get some ground units or Taranto add-ins (Tirano Suggests-  1 armor, 2 artillery in Alex, Egypt, Sudan, 1 DD with Cruiser or a sub etc for 15-17 bid G40), then the Italians never really have the odds to become a raging threat in the Med, and they are less likely to get income over 20 at some point.  With the extra bid pieces, the war for the middle east is more of an easy win, so you can establish your bases in Egypt or your navy down there without many Italians surviving the first turn.

other popular places to put the bid units are to add Russian infantry or artillery, Chinese infantry, etc to add some staying power.  Infantry are too weak and slow (and for USSR and China) support units might be better because they have so few.  You still can only place infantry as china, note.    The problem with this approach is making a difference with what you do place without it getting pretty quickly killed, but this could help you protect directly against Germany during Barbarossa somehow.    There are tons of ideas about this but no consensus.

the bid helps handicap the teams and give the Allies a better chance at cracking one of the Axis.  However, the bid doesn’t do a good job of addressing the dogpile and running program aspects of the game (attack Russia with everything is the critical path to victory)

G40 typical bids run over 15+, usually as UK units
G42 bid needs to be at least 8, to save the UK BB on G1.

@Dafyd:

I think that any question when we are trying to improve our skills is a good question…especially if we are really trying to learn.  The Hessian and ShadowHAwk are right.  The key to the Pacific are the two power fleets of Japan and the U.S.  The U.S. must go after the Japanese fleets.  Carriers loaded with planes are very important as well as the subs and detroyers.  As a side mission and with the permission of your Soviet ally, land troops in Siberia and help take back Soviet territories from the Japanese if they have begun to starve out the Soviet Far East.  It takes resources from the Japanese and can alter the attention of the Japanese player a turn or two if they are interested in defending Korea or pressuring the Soviets.

Good stuff here.  I’m a fan of 3 part attacks on Japanese fleets.  As an example:

Japan leaves a chunk of its fleet in SZ42 (off Java) for whatever reason.  They’re not worried about an attack because America doesn’t have the fleet off of Queensland to come after them.  What I’ve done in those situations is attack with the American ships, then follow up with India planes and Anzac ships/planes to finish them off. You’ll lose your American ships, some India planes and Anzac ships/planes, but if you wipe out half of the Japanese fleet it’s brutal for Japan because, as dominate as they can be, they can’t afford to lose too many major pieces.  America can lose a mini fleet and replace it; Japan cannot afford to be spending multiple turns rebuilding its fleet.

I think the whole bid system might work better as is, if there were an American battleship added to the setup in sea zone #101.

@knp7765:

As Russia, you should definitely grab Norway. With the large US fleet there and London getting liberated, it’s very doubtful Germany will be putting any more boats in the water (…)

I agree completely. I want Norway out of the way first round after London is liberated, just to rid Germany of another 8 IPCs. If the Germans position themselves in Finland however, USA will take Norway instead. Otherwise Germany can enjoy those 8IPCs one more turn.

@knp7765:

(…)Do you plan to liberate Paris if US troops successfully land in Normandy or Holland? (…)

I usually wait to liberate Paris for the exact same reasons as you mentioned. It is a matter of being able to hold it or not. Trading it back and forth with Germany is often unacceptable (but not always), especially if the USA has to spend a lot in the Pacific (sometimes I am forced to invest near 100% in the Pacific with the USA from US7 and onwards because the Japs have taken Calcutta and are investing near 100% on also getting Hawai). For that reason I keep my men and TRS next to each other in Gibraltar, London, Normandy or wherever they are safe while being the most aggressive.

In this particular situation however, it remains to be seen. If taking Paris means the fall of Berlin in a series of falling dominoes then taking Paris it is!

Thanks for the post, Frank.  Yep, you pretty much summed up a few of the many reasons why OOB is fatally flawed, and you have the 30-35 games to back it up.

I get the feeling from my few games of Alpha2 so far (not going too crazy playing it - just a couple games at a time because it will probably be changed anyway) that the Allies still have a significant advantage in Alpha2.  But I have to admit none of the games have lasted even more than a few rounds (with the Axis getting obliterated each time) so maybe those oil field NO’s could really come into play sometimes I suppose.

To me, Russia and USA have suffocating power (Russia is very deep, and as Larry himself acknowledged - he wondered if it was 1 territory too deep), and the UK can be very powerful as well.

@questioneer:

@Cmdr:

Anyway, I believe this is exactly why England gets a chance to beat the snot out of Italy before Italy can do anything about it.  It’s a cruel trick by the game designers to give Italy hope and then dash it out from beneath them.

LOL…great point…this forces the onus on Germany- does Germany go for Sealion- which is possible gaining fat cash or help out Italy in the Med???  It can’t do both.  I actually think its a solid design- otherwise Axis would run the table in Europe- game over by round 5.

Keep in mind, if / when you get England, you have to do something about the Convoy zones or lose half of what you gain.

Right.  But the problem we get into then is, there would have been a fighter screen inbetween the ships and the incoming British planes.   SO, to make this work correctly, you have to have an air battle, then if any remaining British planes survived they could carry on to attack the ships.    problem is, which fighters roll at a 3 and which roll at a 4?   I would argue the German planes are defending, and get the 4.    This would be a huge mess as if your fighter cover for your defending bombers which are actually attacking were shot down, then the German defending fighters would have to battle against the attacking bombers.

Further, this game waters down air units into 3 categories (up from 2, granted) but all the planes are in the swarm.   This is a game.   IRL, Spitfires would not be attacking the surface ships.  Mosquito variants (about 25+ which could attack, not counting recon/trainers) could do this, but then which do you have?   When you buy that tac bomber, is it a Fighter/Fighter-Bomber/Torpedo-Bomber/Bomber?

The game is dumbed down a bit in this, and we have to deal with it.   Stukas and Vals shouldn’t be 3/3s.   Mitchells weren’t going to be taking down Zeros.  Oh well.

Stack em up, roll them all at once, and in an Allied heavy game please don’t give the UK the ability to scramble from the home island.