I left your bid from last game and added factories in Egypt and Persia. hope ok. if not change however you would like.dawg-64-v-mike-g40-start-round-5-Germany 5.tsvg
P40 VonLetto (x) v Gamerman01 Pointlessly Broken, USA is doomed game 1
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Let me know if you think that is out of line for me to be upset at the fact that you challenge me to a game and expect I commit a week or more to it when at least the first game can be over and done with in 2 hours. All of my posting in the thread in the pac forum that offered games offered them live on TripleA. I don’t see why I should be under any obligation to immensely inconvenience myself over the course of potentially multiple weeks when my incredibly reasonable offer to play a game against anyone who would like to work out with me a time when we can meet to play online is standing.
It’s one thing if I say to you “Let’s play, you name the time and place” and then I bow out when you demand to play PBF, but I told you before trying it that I would try it, but I did not guarantee I would finish it.
You challenged me, so if you don’t want to play live, then I guess we won’t be playing.
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@Imperious:
As soon as Gamerman01 whips your idea into ashes, perhaps no more arrogant threads like “Pointlessly Broken?”
Perhaps saying less would be a better idea. :roll:
Don’t expect to be taken too kindly when you just show up on the scene and announce you have this killer strategy that proves the game is broken. That’s the same as telling us we’re all stupid for not seeing it for the past 3 years. We thought about it too, tried it, it doesn’t work. So I am up to the challenge to see your new innovative idea, and I say “enter Gamerman” which is a play on words of “enter Sandman”. Whoopdedoo - you’re offended by that? That’s your problem. I don’t care what you think about every comment I make - I don’t even know you.
Thanks for finally posting 2 game threads. We will look at them and get back to you.
I thought I already said this, but I had no idea that I was asking you to take on some kind of monumental undertaking that was going to take un-told hours of your time. I also said that we seem to have strong preferences for 2 different methods of play, and maybe those differences are irreconcilable. I don’t think you need to start pointing fingers and trying to prove that I’m the unreasonable one.
It’s simple. I’m one of the top league players on the site for the past several years, and I offered to test your strategy before you get the game developers all excited and change the official rules for all of us. I don’t see anything inappropriate about that - I think you’re just being defensive. And as IL pointed out, the very creation of your thread and your whole premise is arrogant, so if arrogant people like me take issue with that, you shouldn’t be surprised. :-)
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There are dozens of players playing league games by forum as we speak. Are you saying we’re all taking way too long to play our games, and that “live” play is superior in every way?
But as you’ve shown, you don’t even know how to play by forum and have never done it. How can you legitimately and informatively criticize something you have no experience with? You can’t. -
I will probably go ahead and make my round 1 moves on this game and on this thread, tonight.
With P40, it’s only 1 move per round per player, and in a matter of about 3-4 rounds we will probably know how this is going to end up, either way. I think you should re-consider your flat refusal to play this way, and just check back once every day or two. Click “show new replies to your posts” and voila - you will see if I’ve moved. Takes about 10 seconds from the moment you open your web browser.
I’ll look over your 2 game files before that, because if I see any significant ways to stop Japan that were not done in the game, it may be wholly unnecessary to make a single move here. We’ll see.
The main reason I got involved with this whole thing is because I love solving puzzles. You offered a puzzle for us to solve, essentially. So sue me for wanting take on a challenge of solving a puzzle that someone has claimed is unsolveable.
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We’ve got around half a dozen possible fixes we’re considering, but we’d like to wait a little while and see if someone comes up with a counter (slim chance, I know). If no counter is forthcoming in a reasonable amount of time, we’ll publish a fix for testing.
Enter Gamerman 8-)
That was the original post. You see why I might be a little turned off by your approach when from that post it looks like you act like YOU are the guy who will undoubtedly find a counter to the noob strategy that some noob dared think could work.
These selected portions aren’t a good first impression either: @Gamerman01:
I challenged the guy who said it was “unstoppable” and I trashed him.
….
Anyway, as Eggman said, run a few rounds of this “unstoppable” strategy on tripleA and upload it so we can analyze it.
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But I REALLY don’t want to take the time to read all your ruminations. Just show us the “final” “whiz-bang” strat that you’ve “fine-tuned”, and I’ll see if I can stop it.You’re right that I don’t know you, and from what I have seen, I hope you can understand why I would be hesitant to know you better. “Trashing” people who you play against, and then suggesting that I am incapable of fine-tuning a strat by putting the phrase is quotes, are not good impressions. Additionally, I read that you didn’t want to take the time to read what I have already posted, but then you want me to commit a week to playing you? That came off as unreasonable. Likewise, acting like this is some insigificantly boring problem that experts already solved is at least as off-putting as the other stuff:
@Gamerman01:This was all hashed out in 2010 <yawn></yawn>
As for PBF vs live, what I am saying is that I will not take the time do do over the course of a week what can be done in a couple hours. The game being played in the forum is not a prerequisite for that game to be a legitimate test. You yourself said the game would take in the days range instead of the hours range.
I am not “suing” you for taking on the puzzle. What upsets me greatly is your attitude coming into the thread over there, challenging me to a game, and then insisting that your challenge to me be played all on your terms.
Don’t forget that 2nd edition, the game about which I was posting, has only been out a couple months. I really can’t help it if you get offended about OOB when I have been talking about 2e.
Being brutally honest, I think this has a lot to do with sword coming on tripleA and doing a rock solid Japan game, and that makes you angry since instead of some expert player coming up with a probably broken strat, it was a guy who I had taught the map 1/2 hour before he ran me over with it.
Again, not sure why you are so averse to spending two hours on a live game, once, to see the strat in action. You would spend a lot more than that on the PBF game. I am averse to spending a ton more time for the same result as we would get in a quick live game.
I don’t see anything inappropriate about my refusal to go through with this when you won’t even read what I already posted about the strat. I have had an open invitation to come play a live game for a long time now.
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Since it seems we are at an impasse, how about we compromise?
You commit to 2 live games. If, after that time, you are not convinced that there is an issue, I will commit to one PBF game, with the possibility of more following.
At any time, we can end the whole thing if we both agree it’s not worth pursuing (time, interest, w/e), you agree that there is an issue, or I agree that there is no issue.
One thing that will complicate things would be if Japan decides to switch gears from attacking the US, but we can pursue that outside of the first 3 games if we want.
The first couple games you play probably will not be your best Allied strats anyways, so why bother dragging those out? You said you hadn’t even read my “ruminations,” so let’s play a couple live games just so you get the idea of what I am talking about.
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TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Pacific 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.0
Game History
Round :1
Purchase Units - Americans
Americans buy 5 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;Combat Move - Americans
Non Combat Move - Americans
1 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 26 Sea Zone to 10 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from 10 Sea Zone to Western United States
1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
1 transport moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
1 battleship moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
1 cruiser moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
1 carrier moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 10 Sea Zone to 13 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from 10 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
1 tactical_bomber moved from 10 Sea Zone to Western United States
1 fighter moved from Hawaiian Islands to Western United States
1 destroyer moved from 35 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 35 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Philippines to GuamPlace Units - Americans
5 infantry placed in Western United StatesTurn Complete - Americans
Americans collect 17 PUs; end with 19 PUs total -
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Pacific 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.0
Game History
Round :1
Purchase Units - Chinese
Trigger Chinese Artillery Supplies: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Open
Chinese buy 3 artilleries; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;Combat Move - Chinese
1 infantry moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
Chinese take Kwangsi from Japanese
3 infantry moved from Yunnan to Hunan
2 infantry moved from Kweichow to Anhwe
1 fighter moved from Szechwan to Anhwe
2 infantry moved from Suiyuan to ChaharCombat - Chinese
Battle in Chahar
Chinese attack with 2 infantry
Japanese defend with 1 infantry
Chinese win, taking Chahar from Japanese with 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
Battle in Hunan
Chinese attack with 3 infantry
Japanese defend with 1 infantry
Chinese win, taking Hunan from Japanese with 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
Battle in Anhwe
Chinese attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
Japanese defend with 3 infantry
Chinese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
Casualties for Japanese: 3 infantry
Casualties for Chinese: 2 infantryNon Combat Move - Chinese
1 fighter moved from Anhwe to Kweichow
1 infantry moved from Shensi to Hopei
6 infantry moved from Szechwan to KweichowPlace Units - Chinese
1 artillery placed in Hopei
2 artilleries placed in KweichowTurn Complete - Chinese
Chinese collect 12 PUs; end with 12 PUs total
Objective Chinese 1 Burma Road: Chinese met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 18 PUs -
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Pacific 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.0
Game History
Round :1
Politics - British
British takes Political Action: Political Action British To War With Japanese
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and British from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Unprovoked
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Dutch from Neutrality to War
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and British from Neutrality to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied
British succeeds on action: Political Action British To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Dutch from Neutrality to FriendlyPurchase Units - British
British buy 1 bomber; Remaining resources: 4 PUs;Combat Move - British
Non Combat Move - British
1 battleship moved from 37 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 39 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 42 Sea Zone to Java
British take Java from Dutch
1 artillery moved from 42 Sea Zone to Java
3 infantry moved from Malaya to Shan State
2 infantry moved from Burma to Yunnan
5 infantry moved from India to Burma
3 aaGuns moved from India to Burma
1 fighter moved from Burma to Chahar
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from India to Chahar
1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 39 Sea Zone to 45 Sea ZonePlace Units - British
1 bomber placed in IndiaTurn Complete - British
British collect 20 PUs; end with 24 PUs total
Objective UK Pacific 2 Kwangtung And Malaya: British met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 29 PUs -
You must have missed this:
Since it seems we are at an impasse, how about we compromise?
You commit to 2 live games. If, after that time, you are not convinced that there is an issue, I will commit to one PBF game, with the possibility of more following.
At any time, we can end the whole thing if we both agree it’s not worth pursuing (time, interest, w/e), you agree that there is an issue, or I agree that there is no issue.
One thing that will complicate things would be if Japan decides to switch gears from attacking the US, but we can pursue that outside of the first 3 games if we want.
The first couple games you play probably will not be your best Allied strats anyways, so why bother dragging those out? You said you hadn’t even read my “ruminations,” so let’s play a couple live games just so you get the idea of what I am talking about.
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TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Pacific 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.0
Game History
Round :1
Purchase Units - ANZAC
ANZAC buy 1 infantry and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;Combat Move - ANZAC
Non Combat Move - ANZAC
1 cruiser moved from 63 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from New South Wales to 62 Sea Zone
1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 62 Sea Zone to 63 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from New Zealand to 63 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 62 Sea Zone to 29 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Queensland to Samoa
2 fighters moved from New Zealand to Samoa
1 infantry moved from Malaya to Shan State
1 artillery moved from Queensland to New South Wales
2 infantry moved from 63 Sea Zone to New ZealandPlace Units - ANZAC
1 infantry placed in New South Wales
1 transport placed in 62 Sea ZoneTurn Complete - ANZAC
ANZAC collect 10 PUs; end with 10 PUs total
Trigger ANZAC 1 Control Original And Malaya: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 15 PUs -
Dude, I really don’t get it! You make 1 move a day at your convenience, and in about 2 days we’re done! The heart of the matter is soon to be decided - we have the first round done.
I can’t play live, because it takes me an hour to do a play. Plus however long it takes you to do your move. I’m not committing 4-5+ hours to playing a game at one sitting - I would get fatigued anyway.
You’re getting my best game right here, and I really don’t think the Allies can do anything better than what I’m doing right now (call me cocky if you want - I don’t care). I’ve already made a significant improvement on the Allied response as compared to the Sword game.
Just download the ANZAC file, load it into Triple A, make your move at your convenience, and click “post” when you’re done.
I FAIL to understand what your problem with this method of playing is. Dang, how much more easy and convenient can it possibly be? You’ve been on the boards throughout the day anyway. I don’t understand what’s so hard?? Jeez, we’re almost half done with this game.
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I am not your servant. I told you I would play live, but you wouldn’t have it. Whatever. But to berate and goad me for not obeying your commands about how we must test just pisses me off. I don’t care if you are the best player in the history of the game, acting like your preferences are the only ones that matter makes you not worth my time. You have shown zero compromise. I have tried, but you just keep forcing it.
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I can’t play live, because it takes me an hour to do a play. Plus however long it takes you to do your move. I’m not committing 4-5+ hours to playing a game at one sitting - I would get fatigued anyway.
I didn’t really understand what you were saying here at first, but now I get why when after I politely noted my severe frustration with this format, you insulted me and called me a whiner and basically a coward for not wanting to play it. It also sheds a little more light as to why you think 4-5+ hours for one game is fatiguing to you and that is important, but you ignore at best and belittle at worst the fatigue and frustration I experienced trying for 3 hours to get the first turn posted in this unfamiliar format.
I apologize for flying off the handle from your beratement of me; I did not realize you had a cognitive disability or difficulty that needed accomodation and that you need to play PBF because of it. I can understand why you would be embarrased to say that that is the issue, but I really wish you would have just told me off the bat so I knew your refusal to play live was about capability rather than preference.
Again, sorry about misunderstanding your reasons, and now I can finally understand why due to insecurity with this issue a lot of your posts seem overconfident and off-putting, but I think you owe me an apology as well for not being forthcoming about something that was very relevant to the issue here. It’s out of line to demand that I play PBF after I say I am done with trying it if it’s just your preference, but if you are mentally incapable of playing a live game, that’s something you really should have told me.
Hopefully we can put the drama behind us now that I know that your insistence about PBF and your lack of consideration of my wants is due to need rather than preference. My J2 will be up soon. Apologies again.
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TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Pacific 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.0
Game History
Round :2
Politics - Japanese
Japanese takes Political Action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans
Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Americans from Neutrality to War
Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for British and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for ANZAC and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for Americans and French from Neutrality to Allied
Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for Americans and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
Japanese takes Political Action: Political Action Japanese To War With French
Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With French: Changing Relationship for Japanese and French from Neutrality to War
Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With French: Changing Relationship for Chinese and French from Neutrality to AlliedPurchase Units - Japanese
Japanese buy 6 transports; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens;Combat Move - Japanese
Trigger Japanese Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared for rulesAttatchment attached to Japanese
1 submarine moved from 14 Sea Zone to 13 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 33 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 14 Sea Zone to 13 Sea Zone
2 bombers moved from Japan to 25 Sea Zone
1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Kiangsi to Kwangtung
1 infantry moved from Siam to French Indo China
Japanese take French Indo China from French
5 infantry moved from Korea to 6 Sea Zone
1 armour and 3 artilleries moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
1 armour, 3 artilleries, 6 infantry and 5 transports moved from 6 Sea Zone to 1 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 14 Sea Zone to 1 Sea Zone
1 armour, 4 artilleries and 7 infantry moved from 1 Sea Zone to Alaska
1 fighter moved from Kiangsi to Kwangtung
1 fighter moved from 6 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
1 tactical_bomber moved from 6 Sea Zone to JapanCombat - Japanese
Battle in 13 Sea Zone
Japanese attack with 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 2 tactical_bombers
Americans defend with 1 destroyer
Japanese win with 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer
Battle in 25 Sea Zone
Japanese attack with 2 bombers, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter
Americans defend with 1 destroyer
Japanese win with 2 bombers, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer
Battle in Alaska
Battle in Kwangtung
Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 3 infantry
British defend with 1 harbour and 2 infantry
Japanese win, taking Alaska from Americans, taking Kwangtung from British with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
Casualties for British: 2 infantryNon Combat Move - Japanese
1 fighter moved from Kwangtung to 6 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from 25 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
2 bombers moved from 25 Sea Zone to Japan
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Caroline Islands to Japan
3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from Kiangsi to Japan
1 aaGun, 2 artilleries, 6 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Manchuria to Korea
1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Jehol to Manchuria
1 battleship and 1 cruiser moved from 6 Sea Zone to 1 Sea Zone
1 battleship, 2 carriers, 1 cruiser and 2 destroyers moved from 14 Sea Zone to 1 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 1 Sea Zone
2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 13 Sea Zone to 1 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 1 Sea ZonePlace Units - Japanese
6 transports placed in 6 Sea ZoneTurn Complete - Japanese
Japanese collect 33 PUs; end with 35 PUs total -
Hopefully the best allied strat (which you are using right now) will shut this down and hopefully there is also nothing Japan could have done better against this best allied strat. I am pretty sure there is someone out there who can do better than my moves, but hopefully I’m wrong. It’s a bit unfortuntate too few care about pac for someone to really take Japan to the next level.
I was hoping 2e would have everything fixed, so hopefully this test can definitively show that is the case.
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BTW, might have handled SZ6 differently; but I wanted the insurance on Hong Kong. That extra ftr isn’t really necessary.
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Hopefully the best allied strat (which you are using right now) will shut this down and hopefully there is also nothing Japan could have done better against this best allied strat. I am pretty sure there is someone out there who can do better than my moves, but hopefully I’m wrong. It’s a bit unfortuntate too few care about pac for someone to really take Japan to the next level.
I was hoping 2e would have everything fixed, so hopefully this test can definitively show that is the case.
Now we’re talking! Glad to see smart strategy talk again, and a J2!
Yes, I’m sorry for my over-reaction as well. I’m sure I have no idea the trials and tribulations that you went through yesterday morning to play my way.
After I look over your J2, if I see anything that I humbly think could possibly be improved, I will let you know for the benefit of all in knowing whether this strat really can be stopped or not.
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I’m sure I have no idea the trials and tribulations that you went through yesterday morning to play my way.
Did you understand what I meant about setting up a rule for your e-mail program to route off all e-mails from “MARTI” to a junk folder? Or can you just blacklist e-mails from “MARTI” or label as spam so they don’t go to your inbox?
Believe me, when I first started PBF a couple months ago, I was not happy about that either, but I pretty quickly thought up a fix (above) and now it’s not a problem…
How long did it take you to do J2?
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Hopefully the best allied strat (which you are using right now) will shut this down and hopefully there is also nothing Japan could have done better against this best allied strat.
To any observors: PLEASE feel free to comment directly to this thread if you have any ideas about what should be done next by either of us, or what should have been done differently.
We are both TRYING to play the optimal strat for Japan and the Allies both. If we can both play an optimal strategy, then people won’t have to play a lot more games to figure this question out. It’s POSSIBLE we can settle the issue one way or the other with a single game, but only if we’re making really good moves.
I think vonL and I should also be pointing out where we think the other could improve their move if we see anything, for the same reason. Wouldn’t that be the most efficient? Rather than someone having to play it anew just to tweak something they think could have been done differently?
I understand too, that if there are some ideas to do something differently that a new game may need to be played to try it out. But if it’s something like “Man, why are you sitting in WUS this turn when you could move to Canada”, it would be nice to be alerted right away so we can avoid sub-optimal moves that are bringing little or no benefit, in this maiden test game.
Thanks! :-)
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