We’ve got around half a dozen possible fixes we’re considering, but we’d like to wait a little while and see if someone comes up with a counter (slim chance, I know). If no counter is forthcoming in a reasonable amount of time, we’ll publish a fix for testing.
He also said this. Give me a chance to come up with a counter.
Then please play me live. I have been at this for almost 3 hours now and have 1 turn of the first round to show for it. Otherwise I will just throw up a few of the savegames I happen to have from other tests, if I can figure out how to do that. This is increasingly ceasing to be worth my time and effort.
To be honest you are coming across as a little arrogant (The “enter gamerman” comment was worthy of at least one scoff) and that is also a big turn-off. I don’t really care whether you are god’s gift to balance testing or not, I am not going to spread out over days what can take merely several hours.
Oh, please. Look who’s bragging about how he’s broken the game - found by a newbie, no less. Somebody who’s never played the game just waltzes in and shows it’s biggest flaw.
I come along and contend that perhaps it’s not all it’s cracked up to be, and now look at how you’re talking.
Why did it take almost 3 hours to make a J1 playing by forum, and it takes so much less time playing “online”? It’s the same program, and you make the moves the same way, don’t you? I don’t understand your problem.
Dude, I have played way over 100 games of A&A in the past few years and consistently win over 80% of the time. I think I have reason to be confident. If you decide I’m arrogant, well that’s up to you. If you’re going to get all huffy and whiney and not just play the game with a challenger, then you need to shut up about your grand strategy that you spent well over 3 hours typing it all up painstakingly to tell us. I don’t know what to make of you… Can we just play the game without further comments, or not?
Didn’t Krieghund also say that after reviewing the situation he saw a problem?
Yes. The other part of my comment was that (sometimes) game designers are not the best players of their own games, so their own opinions can also be unreliable. This doesn’t mean I don’t think Krieghund is a good player or not, since I couldn’t say. I just mention it as a possibility.
Why did it take almost 3 hours to make a J1 playing by forum, and it takes so much less time playing “online”? Â It’s the same program, and you make the moves the same way, don’t you? Â I don’t understand your problem.
I ran into numerous issues with passwords, email registration, and plain  learning the darn PBF format.
Had you met me in the TripleA lobby like I had suggested we would already be done with the first game.
Again, please correct me if I am wrong about your “enter gamerman” comment sounding extremely arrogant.
Lastly, I am not convinced if Pac is worth spending a week on just one game. As you said in another thread “Few people give a crap about P40 anyway.”
Playing by forum simply does not seem to be worth my time. My invitation for a live game on TripleA still stands, as it has for a long time. You told me PBF would be a lot easier that I thought, but sorry, it’s not. It’s incredibly tedious, and I just don’t care for checking back all the time over the course of the week (or more) when I can finish the same game with the same moves in a few hours. You challenged me, so my terms are that we play live if we are to play. In my opinion it is unreasonable for you to challenge me and expect me to invest immensely more time than I have previously offered.
Perhaps I am scared of playing pbf, but it’s not because I am scared of your counters. In fact, I am sort of rooting for you to find a counter. I don’t like rule changes after release, and it would be good to avoid having to do that. I just hope that there are no better strategies than I have for this type of strat. What I am “scared” of in PBF is wasting colossal amounts of time.
As soon as Gamerman01 whips your idea into ashes, perhaps no more arrogant threads like “Pointlessly Broken?”
Perhaps saying less would be a better idea. :roll:
Here’s two games, don’t really remember who was allies and who was axis in all of them. I am not claiming that the optimal Japanese or Allied strats were done in any of these. Part of my problem is that I name most games by who was playing them, so there are probably more saves in there somewhere, but w/e, the basic idea is here
Pac Broken Sword J7.tsvg
Pac Broke 2 USA Block UK Dec J5.tsvg
Here’s two games, don’t really remember who was allies and who was axis in all of them.
Thanks! In which of these do you think the Axis player performed most effectively?
Probably the sword one (I think that was the one after we switched sides), but IMO the allied play in that one wasn’t that good.
I see in one (the one that goes up to J5), on USA1 he moved 3 infantry and an AA gun to the Aleutians and blocked it off with all kinds of blocking ships.
I haven’t studied it long enough to see what that accomplished, but I note that those 3 infantry and AA gun reduce the odds on WUS on J5 from around 80% to around 40%. No doubt there was a method to the “madness” of defending the Aleutians to the teeth on US1, but those 3 infantry and AA ended up stranded after that.
I might look at the other one too, but really the only way to test it is to have other players try their hand at it and play out more games. I’ll move the Allies in round 1 tonight, and hopefully you’ll respond with a J2 after that.
Just let me know when you got 2 hours free, and we will save a lot of time. I have alread explained earlier in the thread why I think that move is important. Please don’t expect me to commit several days to this game when you won’t read what has already been posted on the subject. Fair?
couple random points without having read the whole discussion
-Trying to figure out an effective counter to a devastating strategy is something that takes time. Which means its ideal for pbem. It’s also ideal for triplea live, since there are no timers and most players are quite patient. But either way, something like this can’t be rushed. If you play pbem you ought to give each other a day to make moves, especially during the workweek.
-It’s not really fair to ask a live player to test a strat with a pbem game or vice versa. So somebody has to compromise. Live is the shiz niz, but pbem gives each person plenty of time to think and fits well into busy schedules. It’s a matter of taste and experience.
-Pacific happens to be ideal for pbem–Japan-Allies-Japan-etc. So any Pacific pbem should move along fairly briskly.
Pacific is unbalanced and needs a bid whether Hollywood works 100% or not. I suspect the Hollywood strategy does work but I’d need to study those maps to be sure.
Good point about the compromise, I posted an idea for one awhile back in the other thread.
In the meantime, if anyone is looking for a live game as the allies (or as the Axis if you are doing a similar J1), PM me so we can work out a time.
OK, I have studied both of the games you posted, for about an hour.
I see what you mean about the sword one being more effective.
I do have some ideas.
Perhaps Japan could prevent this by leaving ships in Z7, clearing the whole path to Canada. The ANZAC cruiser should be moved to Z26 on ANZ1, though, and possibly with some positioning of the USA fleet in Hawaii or other places, the express lane to Canada can be clogged.
Why didn’t the ANZAC fleet go straight north immediately?
Why not have UK build a bomber on UK1, fly it to Queensland on UK2, and to WUS on UK3?
I don’t know about 2nd edition, but Japan was nigh unto unstoppable in OOB. They had a better chance of winning NOT going for USA first, even though they had a decent (30-70% depending) chance of winning that way. Like Zhukov said, Pacific is unbalanced and needs a bid. Even a small bid of 3 or 6 would give USA an infantry or 2 that could be huge in stopping this.
But now that I’ve studied the 2 games, I think I will make the Allies round 1 move.
Zhukov - can you explain to me why it is not fair to ask a live player to test a strat with a pbem game? I don’t understand the problem, nor why he’s claiming it took him THREE HOURS to do a J1. I took care of setting up the thread and the game with the e-mail addresses and told him what to click. He got stuck on the “password” and I told him to use his e-mail password. Then he went crazy telling me what a jerk I was for wanting to play by forum… I don’t understand.
Zhukov - can you explain to me why it is not fair to ask a live player to test a strat with a pbem game?
Sometimes live players do not find pbem fun, at least at first. We play A&A to have fun, so if he’s not having fun perhaps he’s feeling frustrated.
On the other hand, it’s easy for anyone familiar with TripleA and forums to get used to Triplea by forum, once they get past the things some people find tedious (how long it takes TripleA files to load, waiting for opponents to post etc).
The format of pbf should be easy for anyone familiar with TripleA. But the ‘art’ of playing by pbem takes longer to master.
Thanks
US1 is done. I did something very different than in the sword game, moving the USA fleet to Hawaii. It is very safe for J2, and is in much better position to possibly clog sea lanes.
Also, in the sword game a destroyer and cruiser were used as blockers on US1 that are unnecessary. USA has sufficient forces without even buying artillery to keep the Japanese from taking and holding British Columbia. It appears the intent of the blockers was to prevent a landing on Br Col on J2, but I find this wholly unnecessary. I am using 2 destroyer blockers to keep the USA fleet safe at Pearl Harbor for J2.
Debated about keeping the 2 infantry in Hawaii, but was nervous about being able to get them to USA later, and they help with the threat to take back Br Columbia.
Finishing other allies now. Will be buying bomber UK1, I think.
Round 1 is in the books.
I do believe I’ve improved the Allied response significantly from the Sword game.
Meanwhile, VonL is pitching a fit because he’s so opposed to playing by forum. Jeez, it’s a 3 round strategy, we’re 1/3 done already. You only have 2 more moves to make - we’ll be done in a day or two depending on my work schedule.
I can’t spend 5 hours at one sitting playing a “live” game. I’m spending about an hour per move, here.
Listen to Zhukov, buck up, and finish the damn game.
Man, I’ve already spent about 4 hours on your stupid idea today - don’t tell me it was all for nothing.
How long do you spend on your moves? You already know what you’re going to do - what will it take, 20 minutes a move? Tops?
This one game is going to have to prove things well enough, and I’m pretty sure it will, one way or the other. No way I’m playing more than one game with a guy that freaking bitches as much as you do. Good knight!
I already explained why it took me 3 hours to do the J1, if you do not read my posts it is your issue, not mine. Read the game thread. I ran into several roadblocks, it wasn’t nearly as simple and quick relative to live as you suggested it would be before I agreed to try it out. I then find out that I also get emails everytime I get dice, and have to filter those out too, plus I have to put my email out to yet another site to even get those dice in the first place. I have enough spam already. Doing my J1 literally takes 5 minutes, but from the time we started discussing it to the time I finally got everything in order, it was nearing 3 hours. We would have easily done an entire test game in that time. By the way, it wasn’t even my email password, I had to use my forum password. One headache after another that got nothing done.
It may be fair to ask me if I would like to play PBF, but it’s not fair to automatically expect that  the test must be done PBF, especially when you were the one who challenged me to the game.
Where did I call you a jerk?
Post 8 in the other thread I suggest that I really don’t want to bother with PBF anymore, it was already more hassle and waste than I expected.
My next post about it, I say “PM me when you have a 2 hour block to test this out. I see no point in waiting for forum posts constantly when it is much easier to play live.” Half an hour after I post my issue with the dice, someone else has to step in to help me with that. At this point I was incredibly frustrated. And I said so.
I was up intially for trying it once, but after twiddling my thumbs for the past two hours while getting exactly 0 rounds of the game in where we could be at round 6 in a live game, I feel severely frustrated and like I am wasting my time.
Constantly checking back in the forum is cool if you don’t have the time to lay aside a couple hours to play or if you are a notoriously slow player, but I want nothing to do with it. It’s been almost half an hour since I posted the issue I was having with dice, and in that half hour we could have done a round.
Gamerman, again, lmk when you got a few hours. It’s nothing personal, but I am very frustrated for this immense waste of my time.
Hardly seems like I am calling you a jerk, because I am not at all. Â I am respectfully as possible telling you that I got way more hassle than I bargained for and was done with it, and was ready and willing to take you up on my original offer of playing anyone live who had the time.
Finally, after an immense amount of time struggling with the format and waiting for help, I posted the turn (reply 15), with the note that it was already too much hassle and unless things sped up significantly I was gonna drop. I then ask how to fix my dice email spam situation, and you respond with this after offering a tip about the email that didn’t really answer my question.
Dude, quit your whining!
First of all, there are a lot more than 11 interested players in the world.
Second of all, Krieghund is about to change the rulebook after one player presents a strategy, with no demonstrations? Â And now you’re not willing to play a game or two on a format you’re slightly unfamiliar with to prove it?What’s the deal, man? Â Are you for real?
After that (and the several following posts trying to goad me into that immense waste of my time that is PBF games by suggesting that I was losing faith in my strategy), I just plain got pissed. You acted like I was against demonstrating my strategy when I have been offering to show it to people (and have done so about a dozen times) since January 25. You tell me that when I don’t want to keep d***ing around with a format that takes much longer, I just need to stop my “whining.” Â
I am NOT going to waste hours of my time playing a game with someone who is not polite and respectful.
Indeed. Calling me a whiner when I get hassle I did not sign up for isn’t respect at all, and neither was your entry into the whole conversation in the first place.
But I REALLY don’t want to take the time to read all your ruminations. Â Just show us the “final” “whiz-bang” strat that you’ve “fine-tuned”, and I’ll see if I can stop it.
We’ve got around half a dozen possible fixes we’re considering, but we’d like to wait a little while and see if someone comes up with a counter (slim chance, I know). Â If no counter is forthcoming in a reasonable amount of time, we’ll publish a fix for testing.
Enter Gamerman  8-)
This was all hashed out in 2010 <yawn></yawn>
What all that says to me is basically this: “I see you posted a lot of stuff on here, but I am an expert so I am not going to bother reading the game summaries and you already posted. Just give me this alleged “strategy” you think is so great and everything will turn out all right because Gamerman  just got here. I am too important to be bothered by actually reading the thread, and I expect your report soon. This stuff is below me anyways; we experts sorted it out years ago.”
I honestly believe I am barely exaggerating.
You almost made a progressive step with your list of ideas, but you don’t even read what I post. I already explained why it took 3 hours to get that turn in, and then you come after me for allegedly calling you a jerk when you call me a whiner and then try to goad me into burning even more time in a PBF game that I was leaving due to it being far more a hassle than you assured me it would be. I really don’t care if the entrance of Gamerman was the best thing that ever happened to this thread. I don’t care if you claim that because I won’t waste so much more of my time in PBF than live, that I was just making this all up. Until you stop taking 100 your way%, and start giving a little, I want nothing to do with anything you got going. Honestly I am not convinced pacific is to me worth all this effort
To put it bluntly, I am not your servant, although you have been treating me as though I were. You challenged me, and I tried to do the PBF, but it is not as simple as you said it was going to be and I see little point in continuing with the utter lack of respect you have shown me because I have not bowed to every wish you have had for your own convenience and comfort, while you ignore my own.
My offer for a live game or two stands, as it has been for almost two weeks now.
It’s still out there, and it will be out there for a while yet. You are in no way obligated to take me up on the offer, but I am in no way obligated to play PBF just because it suits you, expertise or not. My terms are quite reasonable. It will take a lot less time and hassle to play live than by forum. You challenged me to the game, and those are my terms of accepting your challenge.
I knew vonLettowVorbeck1914 would find a way out of this. Rename this thread ‘Arrogance pointlessly Broken’
Round 1 is in the books.
I do believe I’ve improved the Allied response significantly from the Sword game.
Meanwhile, VonL is pitching a fit because he’s so opposed to playing by forum. Jeez, it’s a 3 round strategy, we’re 1/3 done already. You only have 2 more moves to make - we’ll be done in a day or two depending on my work schedule.I can’t spend 5 hours at one sitting playing a “live” game. I’m spending about an hour per move, here.
Listen to Zhukov, buck up, and finish the damn game.
Man, I’ve already spent about 4 hours on your stupid idea today - don’t tell me it was all for nothing.
How long do you spend on your moves? You already know what you’re going to do - what will it take, 20 minutes a move? Tops?This one game is going to have to prove things well enough, and I’m pretty sure it will, one way or the other. No way I’m playing more than one game with a guy that freaking bitches as much as you do. Good knight!
I should have read the above before I posted my most recent post.
I am NOT going to waste hours of my time playing a game with someone who is not polite and respectful.
Talk about hyposcrisy.
Anyways, goodbye.
If anyone else would like to set up a time to play live on TripleA, shoot me a PM.
