Hey all, I just got my USA invaded in 1940 Pac 2e standalone.
We then switched sides, I told the opponent what was coming, and still took it easily.
The short of it is that Japan brings the house to Alaska on Japan 2, Â moves all it’s planes in on J3, and attacks USA J4.
We are trying again with an Alaska block but don’t see much hope there either.
If USA tries to move it’s navy in to block, it gets easily swept aside. Japan wins with 15 units lefover on average w/o the block. USA tried going all land defense and tried going hard navy, but didn’t matter. If they go hard navy Japan can just land on Canada and take W USA easy.
UK and ANZAC run amok, but it is irrelevant. Once USA is gone its on to hawaii, and even though ANZAC and UK got a good jump it makes no difference.
More detailed outline coming along eventually, but there is no point in playing this game unless Japan’s dice are AWFUL.
(Yes we are aware of Japan being unable to move within 2 of Alaska or Hawaii until they are at war).
Is the USA using naval blockers?
LOL. The game was declared broken 3 days after it was released, which began the process of Alpha 1,2,3.
We spent over a year developing ideas for larry, which finally resulted in 2nd edition Pacific and Europe.
@Eggman:
Is the USA using naval blockers?
Yes. USA blocked the Japanese from getting Alaska on rd 2, but Japan just invaded the aleutians turn 2. Turn 3 they invade canada full force or alaska if they want to play it safe. (That really depends on what the USA player bought). USA also blocked Japan from getting hawaii round 2. Perhaps that was a mistake.
UK declared war UK1 which is because the alled player was told Japan would be coming for San Franscisco. It would be interesting to see the decisions UK would have to make if the Japanese player allowed himself to change his mind.
Imperious Leader: stop stalking me. You haven’t posted in this forum since at least September, if not before. It’s clear your post is baiting and has no good intent towards the discussion. Clearly in my post I said the game we were playing was 2e. You just were looking for something to ridicule of mine.
You are starting the game with a major IC in Western United States, right?
You are starting the game with a major IC in Western United States, right?
Yes.
Good timing, I just got done writing it up.
Buy: 3 trn
Combat Move
Chahar: 1 inf (Jehol)
Anhwe: 4 inf (3 Shantung 1 Jehol), Mech (Manchu)
Hunan: 2 inf (Kiangsi) 3 ftr (1 Kiangsu 2 Manchu) 3 tac (ditto)***
NC Move
SZ 6 Navy to 14 with 1 inf 1 art from Japan (according to the rules this is not within 2 sz’s of Alaska or W USA)
SZ 33 Navy to Japan
SZ 19 Navy to Japan (with art from shantung, inf from okinawa)
SZ 20 to Japan (with Art from Kiangsu)
Korea: 6 inf, Art, AA (Manchu)
Manchu: Art (Jehol)
Kiangsi: 5 inf (2 Kwangsi, 3 Kiangsu), Art, 3 tac 3 ftr (all from Hunan)***
Japan: 3 Ftr (Korea, Okinawa, Formosa)
***EDIT Forgot 2 bmb from Japan to Kiangsi. They can join in on Hunan in combat
Place: 3 trn SZ 6.
I am 99% positive there are plenty of more efficent J1’s for the US crush. But this one still worked pretty well. Credit for this strat, if it is indeed too powerful, goes to Saber on TripleA. It was his first time playing Pac 2e he said, so there is probably some room for improvement, but kudos to him regardless.
Lots of questions for Allies at that point. Does US block in 8, 9, 13, and 25 to stop hawaii/alaska both? Do they send the Hawaii inf back to the mainland? Do they leave the 2 ftr on hawaii with a 25 block?
Do UK ANZAC DOW turn to get the NO boost while they can? Or is it too risky since Japan can switch gears?
Lots of different options to explore, yet you still declare the game “pointlessly broken”. A little premature, don’t you think? :wink:
Usually yes, but we had an audience of about 5 players, this Japan player was playing his first game, and all agreed that there was nothing the US could have done. If they go navy, Japan can buy 1 or 2 less transports. If they go land, Japan can land 24 units in canada round 3, USA can’t stop it. If a USA suicide attack USA 3 doesn’t wipe out that canada stack, 13 more planes + however many land units Japan wants to bring are on the way.
My point with the questions was that there is simply too much the Allies have to consider. It’s a darned if they do, darned if they don’t situation. In real games, Japan will not declare what they will do no matter what.
It’s one thing if the strat was stopped when the Allied player was told it was coming. It’s quite another to realize that Japan can change his mind if UK DOW’s UK 1.
I’ve been mulling this over, and I’m not sure this strategy is unbeatable. The US can move blockers to sea zones 8 and 9, keeping Japan from taking Western Canada before turn 3. Japan will then need to wait until turn 4 to get its planes there. This gives the US 4 turns of build-up, including 2 with its war economy. Granted, Japan can reduce the US’ income with convoy raids, but it won’t cost the US much until turn 3 (unless Japan risks planes to clear sea zone 10 on turn 2).
If everything goes well, Japan can still have a good (but not overwhelming) chance of success. The biggest variable will be the US AAA fire.
I would probably try to use ANZAC to block Hawaii. The USA should probably try to make sure that if they go, they take Japan’s navy with them. If China survives, then India can focus on building navy to challenge Japan while the Chinese make sure they never get back into Asia.
The far more interesting question is if this still applies in Global… combine this with a German attack that hits Iceland R2 and Canada R3. UK will have to decide between guarding Canada or covering London. It would be extremely difficult for the US & UK to have blockers out to prevent every approach to Canada, especially if Germany has a decent amount of Subs survive G1.
I’ve been mulling this over, and I’m not sure this strategy is unbeatable. The US can move blockers to sea zones 8 and 9, keeping Japan from taking Western Canada before turn 3.
I might be wrong, but blockers in SZ7 & 15 US1 and blockers in SZ8 & 9 US2 should stop the attack on Canada until turn 4.
I don’t think it applies in Global at all. USA has 52 IPC when not at war, not 17 like in Pac. The Easr and Central USA factory and reinforcements make it a non issue unless Germany is somehow also threatening USA. Additionally, in Global, W USA is not the US capital so taking it doesn’t knock them out.
Hardly anybody plays pac from what I understand, so it’s not surprising that it’s got a glitch. The most important thing to remember here is that this strat was executed by a guy who was on the map for the first time. They seem to be the real innovators.
From what I have seen, USA just can’t afford to try to take out the japanese navy. They can’t stop the Canada invasion with their navy, so if they try to go naval, USA is a cakewalk. The more ships/Planes the USA buys, the more DD’s Japan can buy.
China and india can run amok, but once USA is gone it doesn’t matter. ANZAC can’t block (they can sit a ship there but they can;t block trns from getting there) Pearl before Japan 2.If pearl is going to be saved J2, USA has to do it. If they want to save it, that’s at least 2 inf that won’t be in the battle that really matters.
Even if the Japanese Navy is sunk, it won’t be before more than enough Japanese are in Canada to take W USA. With the 40 something from the US bank and the 15-21 for having W USA and possibly Hawaii, Japan’s fleet can get rebuilt very fast IF the USA is able to take it out.
One thing I found worked great was an airbase in the Aleutians. From there ftr and tac can land in canada after blasting W USA.
If you’re ever on TripleA and see if Saber, I, or MatildaMike are on, see if one of us is available to show you what we saw.
The scariest thing is that I know that I am not doing the strat as well as it can be done. And it is still too good.
So far it’s a bit fuzzy as to what the best US chance is, but it seems like a large land army to hit canada and pray for a win.
Trying to take out the Japanese navy is foolishness. The US needs to abandon Hawaii, get everything back to Western United States that can get there, and build infantry and tanks to be ready for the attack.
Scenario for Japan at the end of J3 is 12 trns + all of navy (6 ftr)in SZ 1
Possibly AA guns brought to Canada if you want instead of inf.
PLUS
With Alaska Block: 8 Tac, 5 ftr, 2 bmb in Aleutians.
Without Alaska Block: Same in alaska, Airbase optional.
Undefeatable outside of suicide attacks on canada or navy.
Simple solution: Give USA a 50 bid to spend on AA guns for W USA. Sounds ridiculous, but solves the problem. There is a solution with more finesse probably. (5 aa guns in addition would not be a bad idea at first blush for india, but I haven;t looked at that yet.)
With Alaska Block: 8 Tac, 5 ftr, 2 bmb in Aleutians.
Without Alaska Block: Same in alaska, Airbase optional.
Does that include the two rounds of SZ blocking I mentioned earlier?
I agree that ANZAC can’t save Hawaii, but I would hope they could send enough there to be enough of a diversion for Japan that it makes a difference to the USA defenses.
Maybe make a rule that if Japan lands in North America (Alaska or Canada or Mexico, not WUSA), then USA gets an extra 12-18 infantry in WUSA at the end of their turn. This would represent the militia or volunteer force that would materialize if North America was invaded.
@Eggman:
With Alaska Block: 8 Tac, 5 ftr, 2 bmb in Aleutians.
Without Alaska Block: Same in alaska, Airbase optional.Does that include the two rounds of SZ blocking I mentioned earlier?
I agree that ANZAC can’t save Hawaii, but I would hope they could send enough there to be enough of a diversion for Japan that it makes a difference to the USA defenses.
I am not actually sure if it’s in Japan’s interest to take hawaii even if it is open.
To be clear, the present strat has Japan’s DOW on J2 (usually). A US1 block of 15 usually does nothing other than waste ships. Japan moves to  14 on J1 with everything they can bring. Unless USA stacks the Aleutian islands US1 (which creates a whole new set of problems for them.) Japan can easily take it.
In order to give Japan some difficulty in taking the Aleutians, USA would need to block 4, 7, and 16 (remember Japan has a transport in 14). To stop a landing in Alaska, they also need to block 8 and 9, or the aleutian block would have been pointless.  USA could then stack the Aleutians with 5 planes and 2-4 inf (or maybe 1 a gun too). In this case, it would be interesting to see if it would be in Japan’s interest to DOW and pick off the easy ships, or just delay their DOW to the next turn and move everything to 14, and the Aleutians  would fall the next turn.
I tend to think killing the 5 lone ships (+ at least 1 trn) would be the best option as there would be almost no block for the Allies to have from a full Canada hit J3, unless USA bought ships and/ or ANZAC moved up (Which again creates more problems for the US if they spent precious inf money on a ship or two).
OF course, the flip side of the coin is that Japan doesn’t HAVE to try for W USA if this happens. They might just be happy for 5 free ship kills and then turn south.
One thing I just thought of: If USA blows 5 ships necessary for the Aleutians/Alaska block, pan can just blast through and NC to SZ 1 with full transports. USA won’t have anything to hit it with. 3 loaded carriers and 2 battleships would do just fine.
Maybe make a rule that if Japan lands in North America (Alaska or Canada or Mexico, not WUSA), then USA gets an extra 12-18 infantry in WUSA at the end of their turn. Â This would represent the militia or volunteer force that would materialize if North America was invaded.
Welcome Zhukov!
That seems pretty cool and flavorful. Eggman’s post got me thinking about US blocking the Aleutians, but they have to pretty much sell out the navy to do it. Is it their best hope? Is it what can actually stop the US crush? Even if it is, the game is still in need of some help. USA should not have to put 5 ships right in the face of the Japanese to survive.
Eggman or Krieghund if you have TripleA and have 1/2 hour or so I can show you what I mean if my explanation is unclear. If there is a counter, in-game is the best place to find it.
