Funny how…

Glad you are settling down ok.
I had no idea so many were killed in air raids.
Never really studied that last year for Japan, so thanks for telling us.
Please give more details as you find them out.

As I recall, when Curtis LeMay’s B-29 Superfortresses switched from high-level daylight “precision” bombing (which wasn’t as precise as they’d hoped) with conventional explosives to low-level nighttime area bombing with incendiaries, the effect on Tokyo and other large cities was to kill more people and destroy more property (much of Tokyo was built of wooden structures) than would ultimately be lost at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  It was a more labour-intensive and time-consuming process than the two atomic bombings, but its effect was still devastating.

One of the reasons Hiroshima and Nagasaki pushed Japan into surrendering is that those two blows came at the end of two processes which had already ruined the country.  The first was the US submarine blockade of Japan, which over the course of several years starved Japan of vital imported resources.  The second was the US strategic bombing campaign, which over the course of several months leveled many of Japan’s great cities.  The A-bomb attacks, which flattened and incinerated two cities in just a few moments, were a quantum leap upward from conventional bombing, and they provided the final shock that persuaded the Emperor to agree to the terms of the Postdam Declaration.

Regarding Mallery’s observation that “isn’t it funny people talk about Hiroshima/Nagasaki, yet completely leave out or don’t know about the March Air raids that killed about 100K itself and leveled a good portion of the city with napalm and other substances?”, I suppose one possible answer is the one given by the fictitious Professor Groeteschele in the movie Fail-Safe when he talks about the devastating bombings of Hamburg and Dresden and Tokyo, then says that he’s omitting Hiroshima and Nagasaki from the list because those actions “belong more properly to WWIII than to WWII.”

Good point mallery.

It’s the same BS everywhere you go though, with whatever issue you face.

Everyone freaks out about 26 kids that get shot by a psycho with a gun - it becomes a NATIONAL issue;  but the president orders a drone strike that kills 42 children “accidentally”, and no one cares, because the last month another presidential “accident” killed 33 kids…

OR if you listen to natives who “had their land stolen”… then stop yourself to think - if their land was stolen - what is it they are living on?

OR you could buy into the native argument that the “indian act, and first nations legislation” is 100 years out of date. � Yet, the same group of people cling to 300 year old treaties without pause.

Hypocrisy at it’s finest.

Pools in America killed more Americans last year, than the Taliban EVER did.

@Gargantua:

Good point mallery.

It’s the same BS everywhere you go though, with whatever issue you face.

Everyone freaks out about 26 kids that get shot by a psycho with a gun - it becomes a NATIONAL issue; � but the president orders a drone strike that kills 42 children “accidentally”, and no one cares, because the last month another presidential “accident” killed 33 kids…

OR if you listen to natives who “had their land stolen”… then stop yourself to think - if their land was stolen - what is it they are living on?

OR you could buy into the native argument that the “indian act, and first nations legislation” is 100 years out of date. � Yet, the same group of people cling to 300 year old treaties without pause.

Hypocrisy at it’s finest.

Pools in America killed more Americans last year, than the Taliban EVER did.

Yeah, Not to imagine that hiroshima killed 800K, Mostly families.

The problem is, Its America.

@Mallery29:

800K?  Explain where that number comes from….you are only off by a factor of 7ish.

Well, I think its roughly 700-800K who died in hiroshima.

Empireman,

@empireman:

@Mallery29:

800K?  Explain where that number comes from….you are only off by a factor of 7ish.

Well, I think its roughly 700-800K who died in hiroshima.

––I’m afraid you’re only off by a power of 10. The nuclear bomb that hit Hiroshima killed 80,000.
––The low-level fire-bombing of Tokyo killed 100,000 + EVERY NIGHT and burned out 80% of the city. These fire-bombings had almost reached the level of being ‘routine’.
––And don’t forget the fact of the complete naval blockade of Japan by submarines, and later air-mining of their home waters. More civilians were at starvation levels very soon after the B-29s started laying the mines and many times the death levels of air bombardment would have soon befallen the entire Japanese population. “Complete Death”, you might say.

----I’m sorry but I can’t condone the totally incorrect general knowledge that most Americans, much less the rest of the world have concerning these matters. Especially when it’s spouted by someone who claims to “know” about them.

“Tall Paul”

Yea but 80K from one bomb. The Japanese didn’t know how many of these bombs existed.  1,000 planes raid is one thing, but one bomb destroying that many is another level of terror.

@Tall:

Empireman,

@empireman:

@Mallery29:

800K?  Explain where that number comes from….you are only off by a factor of 7ish.

Well, I think its roughly 700-800K who died in hiroshima.

––I’m afraid you’re only off by a power of 10. The nuclear bomb that hit Hiroshima killed 80,000.
––The low-level fire-bombing of Tokyo killed 100,000 + EVERY NIGHT and burned out 80% of the city. These fire-bombings had almost reached the level of being ‘routine’.
––And don’t forget the fact of the complete naval blockade of Japan by submarines, and later air-mining of their home waters. More civilians were at starvation levels very soon after the B-29s started laying the mines and many times the death levels of air bombardment would have soon befallen the entire Japanese population. “Complete Death”, you might say.

----I’m sorry but I can’t condone the totally incorrect general knowledge that most Americans, much less the rest of the world have concerning these matters. Especially when it’s spouted by someone who claims to “know” about them.

"Tall Paul"Â

oops,  :-P 0s can make a big difference.

@Imperious:

Yea but 80K from one bomb. The Japanese didn’t know how many of these bombs existed.  1,000 planes raid is one thing, but one bomb destroying that many is another level of terror.

Yeah, and Japan would be off the map.

@Mallery29:

Still, there are over 140 million people here in the land area the size of California….seems like it really didn’t do anything to the population.

Well, yeah. If there was 1,000 nukes used in a nuke carpet bombing, most of japan would be destroyed and half of asia and the pacific would have a nuclear winter.

Strange how our media’s shows such indignation on the Hiroshima anniversaries.
The Hiroshima bombing was completely justified.

#2  Nagasaki is mostly forgotten by our media.
I personally view that bombing as a bit over the top, when we were basically waiting for Hirohito to surrender.

@Linkon:

Strange how our media’s shows such indignation on the Hiroshima anniversaries.
The Hiroshima bombing was completely justified.

#2  Nagasaki is mostly forgotten by our media.
I personally view that bombing as a bit over the top, when we were basically waiting for Hirohito to surrender.

Thats so true.

@Linkon:

The Hiroshima bombing was completely justified.
#2  Nagasaki is mostly forgotten by our media.
I personally view that bombing as a bit over the top, when we were basically waiting for Hirohito to surrender.

Well before the A-bombs were used, Roosevelt’s and (later) Truman’s advisors had come to the conclusion that at least two atomic attacks would be needed to persuade Japan to surrender: the first to prove to Japan that the US had a functional atomic bomb, and the second to prove to Japan that the US had more than just one bomb in its arsenal (and thus that Hiroshima was not a one-shot wonder but rather the first of a potential series of future atomic attacks).

I wonder how many more people would have died if the Japanese refused to surrender.

@Gargantua:

I wonder how many more people would have died if the Japanese refused to surrender.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

“Casualty predictions varied widely but were extremely high for both sides: depending on the degree to which Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties and several times that number for total Japanese casualties.”

Casualties would be EXTREMELY HIGH.
Japan were giving children spears to defend.

The A bomb was new

Firebombing wasn’t

Actually, there are no native Americans. Some can be called Earlier Immigrant Americans compared to others.