Low luck or not?

It really works well.

We’ve found that it’s not the -Big- battles where you get screwed.

It’s the little ones…

• You send two fighters and a bomber against a destroyer.
• You miss with everything and he hits…
• Having already lost a fighter, you roll your fighter and bomber, MISS again, he hits again
• Now you’re screwed, you just lost two fighters for nothing, after 7 dice are rolled.
• Do you continue with the bomber? Hell no, you’re outta there, -20 IPC’s…

That scenario has surely happend to all of you.

Medium luck eliminates those kinds of scenario’s for the attacker.

And for the Defender, Low Luck always screws them. � You have 3 infantry defending a territory you HAVE to keep, and your opponent only has 2 infantry, but a handful of planes.

With LL, he just takes your pieces off the board and removes one of his own.

With Medium luck, you can call for a hot streak, and roll to get 2, or 3 of his JUICY pieces, and then maybe losing that territory wasn’t so bad!

It’s even more historically explanable than dice.
-choosing a Low Luck battle, is like choosing a conventional military strategic approach to a situation
-choosing to roll dice, is like choosing an out of the box solution/gamble, that’s either going to pay off huge, or blow up in your face.

IMO all future axis and allies games should be medium luck!

Medium luck also totally deflates the “I had a bad dice game” complaint. Because you can always throw it back “It was your call to go with dice.”

Case closed, game improves, lots of fun, there are still chance variables, but they are yours to CONTROL!

Always placed dice, because, well, it comes with the game and that is what you are supposed to roll when deciding combat.

Never tried low luck, but don’t see much point to as dice put enough variability into deciding the battles for me.

@Gargantua:

It really works well.

We’ve found that it’s not the -Big- battles where you get screwed.

It’s the little ones…

• You send two fighters and a bomber against a destroyer.
• You miss with everything and he hits…
• Having already lost a fighter, you roll your fighter and bomber, MISS again, he hits again
• Now you’re screwed, you just lost two fighters for nothing, after 7 dice are rolled.
• Do you continue with the bomber? Hell no, you’re outta there, -20 IPC’s…

That scenario has surely happend to all of you.

Medium luck eliminates those kinds of scenario’s for the attacker.

And for the Defender, Low Luck always screws them. � You have 3 infantry defending a territory you HAVE to keep, and your opponent only has 2 infantry, but a handful of planes.

With LL, he just takes your pieces off the board and removes one of his own.

With Medium luck, you can call for a hot streak, and roll to get 2, or 3 of his JUICY pieces, and then maybe losing that territory wasn’t so bad!

It’s even more historically explanable than dice.
-choosing a Low Luck battle, is like choosing a conventional military strategic approach to a situation
-choosing to roll dice, is like choosing an out of the box solution/gamble, that’s either going to pay off huge, or blow up in your face.

IMO all future axis and allies games should be medium luck!

Medium luck also totally deflates the “I had a bad dice game” complaint. Because you can always throw it back “It was your call to go with dice.”

Case closed, game improves, lots of fun, there are still chance variables, but they are yours to CONTROL!

Great point. I think you’d see attackers choosing LL and defender choosing dice almost everytime, but good thinking.

@Gargantua:

It really works well.

We’ve found that it’s not the -Big- battles where you get screwed.

It’s the little ones…

• You send two fighters and a bomber against a destroyer.
• You miss with everything and he hits…
• Having already lost a fighter, you roll your fighter and bomber, MISS again, he hits again
• Now you’re screwed, you just lost two fighters for nothing, after 7 dice are rolled.
• Do you continue with the bomber? Hell no, you’re outta there, -20 IPC’s…

That scenario has surely happend to all of you.

Medium luck eliminates those kinds of scenario’s for the attacker.

And for the Defender, Low Luck always screws them. � You have 3 infantry defending a territory you HAVE to keep, and your opponent only has 2 infantry, but a handful of planes.

With LL, he just takes your pieces off the board and removes one of his own.

With Medium luck, you can call for a hot streak, and roll to get 2, or 3 of his JUICY pieces, and then maybe losing that territory wasn’t so bad!

It’s even more historically explanable than dice.
-choosing a Low Luck battle, is like choosing a conventional military strategic approach to a situation
-choosing to roll dice, is like choosing an out of the box solution/gamble, that’s either going to pay off huge, or blow up in your face.

IMO all future axis and allies games should be medium luck!

Medium luck also totally deflates the “I had a bad dice game” complaint. Because you can always throw it back “It was your call to go with dice.”

Case closed, game improves, lots of fun, there are still chance variables, but they are yours to CONTROL!

From a different perspective:

Defenders are never afforded an opportunity to retreat.  Attackers are.  Its not the defender’s fault they are trapped and have to roll dice to continue the battle.  Further, its not their fault that you elected to trade 2 fighters for a destroyer because the destroyer cannot retreat and was forced to roll dice.  There was a 1 in 3 odds that you’d lose at least one of your units in the attack in the first round.

Granted the odds were in the attackers favor, but historically odds don’t always reflect the outcome of battles.

My proposed solution:

Defenders may retreat anytime the attackers have the opportunity to retreat and elect not to.  In order to do so, the defender has to leave units equal to the units lost that round in combat but may retreat all units in excess of that to an adjacent territory the defender controlled before combat begun, or into an uncontested sea zone.

@Gargantua:

Medium luck is the best thing that anyone ever came up with to address this.

anytime you are about to roll dice you can choose - Average + remainder die, or all dice.

It makes a hell of a better game, and most of the time, you find that you risk in on the dice anyways!

How does medium luck work?

@cond1024:

@Gargantua:

Medium luck is the best thing that anyone ever came up with to address this.

anytime you are about to roll dice you can choose - Average + remainder die, or all dice.

It makes a hell of a better game, and most of the time, you find that you risk in on the dice anyways!

How does medium luck work?

My understanding is you can choose low luck or normal dice roll before resolving combat.  I guess you can do it before each roll if you wanted.

if you are going to make retreat rules, how about this;

before defender rolls, he has the option to retreat.

If he retreats, then the attacking inf+art are not alowed to fire, the attacking mech +tanks can either chose to attack the retreating mech/tanks (defenders choice between mech and tank) and suffer a +1 on all rolls, or to attack the retreating inf/art at no penalty.
the attacking planes can chose to attack retreating inf/art at  -1, mech/tank at 0, or defening planes at -2.

this way the planes are DANGEROUS on retreat, slowmovers are not so bad, but tanks + mechs are more important.

I prefer the simplicity, but I see the point.

In example you have 6 units that should lose to a superior force.  In the first round the attacker has terrible rolls and only lands 2 hits.  You have 4 units remaining, but to save 2 units you have to leave 2 units behind for the attacker to roll against.  In effect it becomes low luck by taking x amount of units off the board but you get to preserve the remaining 2 units.

I think its a better balance for the defender allowing low luck scenarios to occur, but requires the attacker to first experience an ill-fated roll.  The trade-off is that the defender doesn’t lose all their units in the process, which is the biggest gripe from low luck as I see it.  It gives the attacker the territory they wanted, at the expense of a few units escaping.

I would posit that the lone exception to my rule would be TT cannot retreat unless they are escorted by surface warships.

you could just say, at the beginning of any round of combat, the defender can declare a retreat.

then either the attacker gets to attack like I said, or the attacker rolls one regular round of combat, and the defender does not roll at all.

@Kreuzfeld:

you could just say, at the beginning of any round of combat, the defender can declare a retreat.

then either the attacker gets to attack like I said, or the attacker rolls one regular round of combat, and the defender does not roll at all.

I like this as a defensive retreat option, but for simplicity I would probably just have it as normal regular round of combat for the attackers - but that is me, simple things for simple minds eh?

it depends.

in LL game, better player wins most of the time against a poorer player.  in dice, better player loses more to poor player. so it would be quite boring between these two kind of players if they play LL cos they almost know the result even before the game starts. in that case better player might find dice game to be a real challenge.

for poor player, dice games let them win more, meanwhile strangle their skill in a long run. they can never tell they lose because of bad luck or bad strategy.  :?

problem with low luck is that it favours the attacker.  I am pretty sure it favors the axis in this game, since the germans can do a “perfect” first round against the allies, while not being afraid of being diced in any of the marginal battles.

Low luck is really just a test of the strategy, but not how it matches up to the real world.  The unpredictibility of the dice works both ways, and can lead to many unanticipated opportunities and disasters, keeping each game different.

It also depends on if you’re good at rolling dice.  It is an actual skill, and some people can just never throw a “1” to save their life or capital.

@MagicQ:

for poor player, dice games let them win more, meanwhile strangle their skill in a long run. they can never tell they lose because of bad luck or bad strategy.   :?

Good point and it’s one of the reasons playing both low luck and dice makes one a better player overall.

I don’t know about you guys, but I find that weaker players SUFFER more in dice games, as low luck is more calculatable.

Especially when you consider that units you lose this turn, you won’t be able to use for the next 4, 5 ,6, etc turns.

It’s also easier to scare people with dice potentials, when they don’t know what they can count on in a dice game.

I would play something inbetween LL and dice, med luck perhaps.  LL seems to predictable and less fun.  Even though you can get screwed with dice, thats the fun.  One game I should of had russia, or at least left them with very few remaining units, but they had around 20 because I rolled horribly.  But in this current game I am allies, and I rolled really well on all my defends so far, and have gotten lucky on my attacks(I rolled bad, but so did he, ended in my favor though), doing a good amt of damage overall on the first two rounds.  On LL it wouldnt have happened that way, it would have only happened one seemingly linear way.

Probably making LL sound worse than it actually is, but I’m just not a fan.

@Gargantua:

I don’t know about you guys, but I find that weaker players SUFFER more in dice games, as low luck is more calculatable.

Especially when you consider that units you lose this turn, you won’t be able to use for the next 4, 5 ,6, etc turns.

It’s also easier to scare people with dice potentials, when they don’t know what they can count on in a dice game.

A great player won’t loose to a decent player in Low Luck ever. In dice the decent player can “get lucky” against the better player. Dice makes worse players have a better chance to win.