X-DAP-04 TeamBoldDutch vs. Ancients for 1945

  • '10

    I am out and have not seen the map, but I know with 100% certainty what the change is. Sorry, I’m as flexible on rules and errors as anyone that plays on here. But I am not going to allow this one.  The only reason for the change was the movement of the German bomber.

    It should not have taken several days to determine an Anzac purchase. The Anzac should already know what they are doing when the US moves, which we waited 2 days for, and then we wait a day for the Anzac, and then Anzac still doesn’t know what it is buying. Even half a day after their turn? No way. It shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes to spend their small was.

    Sorry guys. I appreciate the accelerated pace, but no way.

  • '21 '20 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13

    Please wait with Japan. I need to get in touch with my teammates. Will post a notice as soon as I can.

  • '12

    There is no possible way we can lose this game.  The crazy thing about this to me is that you should have your anzac move planned along with your usa move.  It is strange that you would want to change the purchase so many hours after the initial post, which was already so many hours after the usa post, which is when the anzac buy should largely be determined.  The only thing that changed in the pacific between the usa move and the russian move was the location of the german bomber which signalled with big red flashing lights that we were moving the fleet to midway.

    As to employment, if that was meant to be a dig, it was’t.  Alex posted anzac in the afternoon US time so me had all afternoon and evening to look at the move - does he work all afternoon and evening?  If so Iit is I who should feel sorry for him not the other way around.  I plan my moves in between my moves, apparently you guys do it differently.

    Anyway the anzac purchase again should be locked in before the usa moves.  We waited plenty of time to post the german bomber movement.  I dont see a valid reason for the purchase to change so much later when the only change in the pacific is the location of the german bomber.  Have any of you actually ever seen a german bomber on midway?  My bet is no.  So while you may have realized it was possible, you clearly didnt think it was going there.

  • '12

    i will say this - i do think a transport is a much better purchase especially when you realize the japanese fleet is going to midway.  :|

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Officially… per my rules and per common tournament law… once dice are rolled, the game moves are locked in.

    If that means no transport for ANZAC so be it…  If that also means no german bomber in Midway.  So be it again.

    That is my official ruling.

    Of course, Gentlemans agreements are of their own accord.  But if my hand is force you know how I will rule.  And usually once I have to rule, no more gentlemans agreements apply.

    I leave you to sort it out!

  • '12

    @Gargantua:

    Officially… per my rules and per common tournament law… once dice are rolled, the game moves are locked in.

    If that means no transport for ANZAC so be it…  If that also means no german bomber in Midway.  So be it again.

    That is my official ruling.

    Of course, Gentlemans agreements are of their own accord.  But if my hand is force you know how I will rule.  And usually once I have to rule, no more gentlemans agreements apply.

    I leave you to sort it out!

    it’s a bit tricky going by the dice rolled criteria.  ancients gave us the go-ahead to proceed with germany after they posted franzac and the germans rolled dice.  this was with the caveat that they would have the rest of the evening to change anzac, where no dice were rolled.  after germany posted, we waited 12 hours, giving me the entire afternoon, evening, and night to look at the move.  another 16 or so hours after germany noncommed the bomber to midway, trajan made the russian move and he changed the anzac purchase to include a transport before proceeding with the russian move/dice.

  • '12

    @Boldfresh:

    @Gargantua:

    Officially… per my rules and per common tournament law… once dice are rolled, the game moves are locked in.

    If that means no transport for ANZAC so be it…  If that also means no german bomber in Midway.  So be it again.

    That is my official ruling.

    Of course, Gentlemans agreements are of their own accord.  But if my hand is force you know how I will rule.  And usually once I have to rule, no more gentlemans agreements apply.

    I leave you to sort it out!

    it’s a bit tricky going by the dice rolled criteria.  ancients gave us the go-ahead to proceed with germany after they posted franzac and the germans rolled dice.  this was with the caveat that they would have the rest of the evening to change anzac, where no dice were rolled.  after germany posted, we waited 12 hours, giving me Me1945 the entire afternoon, evening, and night to look at the move.  another 16 or so hours after germany noncommed the bomber to midway, trajan made the russian move and he changed the anzac purchase to include a transport before proceeding with the russian move/dice.

  • '12

    bottom line:  german bomber and japanese fleet to midway would
    have hastened the Ancients’ demise.  we would all like to see a
    satisfactory conclusion sooner rather than later, and this would
    have been a nifty little move that would have put them on their
    heels in the pacific.  and they already have one foot in the grave
    and the other on a banana peel so….  :-P

  • '21 '20 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13

    No ANZAC problem. I took time-out to confirm some Rus moves.
    Map is attached.

  • '10

    @Gargantua:

    Officially… per my rules and per common tournament law… once dice are rolled, the game moves are locked in.

    Just for clarity, the German bomber was posted before any dice were rolled.

  • '17 '16 '15 '12

    “So Bold, I guess you can go forward with Germany if you accept a possible build / movement edit later tonight for ANZAC. Since there was no combat, and since builds hardly affect Germany (except your bomber), that would be acceptable? Otherwise pls wait for review by any team member.”

    Just for clarity, above is my message after I posted ANZAC. I explicitly asked Bold to accept build changes even after Germany, or else wait with Germany. Bold did not wait, so that means any change for ANZAC will be accepted.

    Now I can hear you screaming that I wrote “later tonight”, but that is, at best, a time issue, nothing which you can use as a qualitative argument. Of course we know from early on that you dont like our speed, but in this case you should have waited with Germany, exactly as I have asked you to do.

    If you feel that our speed is unacceptable, you should have brought up your complaints with the tournament director long ago (maybe you did, anyway) and demand a decision, because that is the only place from where I accept any judgement. We are not on 24h stand by for you, and again, only Garg has the power to demand a time limit that is more convenient for you.
    “It should no have taken” and so on, Dutch, thats your opinion, and even if this is the majority opinion, its not binding. I know its a pity that we dont live up to your standard, but either have Garg come up with a reprimand, or simply wait another day.

    You, Bold, continue to state the game is won and there is no chance on earth for a different ending. You probably also dont think anyone can come to a different conclusion, and thats really perfectly ok. Should you not be able to rest more easily, then?

  • '12

    I rest exceedingly easily.  Its just that the game is taking waaaaaaay too long and is inconveniencing others.  We have waited >24 hrs for a decision on a scramble of a couple russian fighters…  I dont even bomb if you have a single ftr in a territory anymore.  Its ridiculous.  And now you need this much time for a simple anzac move?  We are out of time.  Its like your ate down 10-1 in the penalty makeup time of a football game and you are passing the ball around the field near YOUR OWN GOAL!  You need to be making big things happen if you want ANY chance yet you continue to take big chunks of time on simple moves and make no significant attacks.  Come on guys this is not fair to the others playing in this tourney esp at this point.  Congrats on making it this far but I think its time to give up.

  • '12

    You call it a time issue, at best.  Exactly it is a time issue.  Given that we are in overtime and you were doing a simple anzac move, how much time do you feel was needed?  You had a total of over 24 hrs for anzac after italy posted and until dutch posted to german bomber position.  Trust me that is a generous amount of time considering the circumstances and certainly complied with your “tonight” qualifier.

  • '10

    Alex, it does not ever, and I mean EVER, take 3 days to decide how to spend Anzac’s 16 IPCs.  It takes 10 minutes.

    Like I said, I knew what the change was without looking at the map, that shows a clear prejudice directly driven by the movement of the German bomber.  I reject any argument that your team anticipated a move to Midway by the Japanese fleet.  If you had, the Anzac would have built a transport or two to begin with.  It would have been your decision from the time you were planning the US move.  It is clear by the US move and build that your team did not anticipate an Japenese fleet move to Midway.  I understand that we can have an honest disagreement about whether enough time had lapsed for the Anzac to complete their “build” before the German bomber moved, but it becomes a dishonest discussion when your team says that you anticipated a move to Midway.  You all know that was not discussed and planned for amongst your team, so please let’s keep that part of the discussion clear: The reason Anzac wants to change its build is because it got the benefit of seeing where the Japanese intend to place their fleet.  Bottom line.

  • '17 '16 '15 '12

    I like it. When I only insist on “bottom line” long enough and often enough, it IS “bottom line”, right? And a bit of Italics can never harm.

    Bold simply should not have moved Germany, and I asked him not to do. My learning is to better accept one more thread-page of complaints and wait for confirmation from my team, taking an hour or a day (big apologies by the way for me not knowing in advance if people an ocean away would have a possibility to post in the same night or not; I should not have been time-specific) than having this situation again. That is then at least something solid with which to work, should you decide you want to bring it up officially.

  • '12

    Once again they are stalling dutch.  Im for giving the what they want so the game can continue.  Clearly they want this to go to a decision so they can claim with more time they could have won.  sorry all who are waiting this move would have hastened a conclusion but it appears if we insist there will only be continued stonewalling.  What do you say dutch?

  • '10

    I want to hear an explaination on:
    1. Why Anzac changed their build;
    2. Why it took 3 days to decide on the build; and
    3. That you anticipated a move to Midway by the Japanese fleet when the US and Ancac did their turns.

    All this talk from your team and you have failed to address those 3 points.

  • '10

    Again , just to be clear:
    1. No dice were rolled before the German bomber placement.
    2. Both the Germans and Russians rolled dice and then the Anzac changed their build.

    I think the official decision was already made by Garg on this. We are playing through. There is no Anzac transport.

  • '17 '16 '15 '12

    Your worst fear? In case of a ruling, anyone would claim that we would have beaten you had the game run a bit longer? Thats it? That is what occupies you all day?

    So, to make Bold rest even more peacefully, and in all seriousness: No one here will discuss and question any ruling (well, you might, but no one on this side). I cannot say for spectators, of course, but thats not my problem. I have better things to do than a Forum cruisade on why I have been robbed of the chance of beat Team BoldDutch. I know this will not be good enough for you, but its really all I can give you, its a promise!!! Strange enough that this has to be said openly, but since Bold continually claims the opposite, it probably has to.

    As for Dutch: You can ask all you want, and you can certainly draw all sorts of conclusions (as you certainly will), but the inconvenient truth is that Bold just should not have moved Germany, and that a change to ANZAC buy and or movement was indicated as a possibility. I told you so before Germany moved. I even said that the bomber is an issue, and you still decided to move. If that German move is not full acceptance of any change for Anzac, then I dont know. I mean, had I only said “possible change in movement”, we could have a good time right now. “Buy” was said on purpose, though.
    If your only reason and excuse for moving Germany is that “time was up since Alex said later tonight, and its beyond that point”, thats ok and we better leave it at that. You stated your unhappiness, you stated your disapproval, you stated, in essence, that we are below standard in skill as we took so long for this decision while you have it in ten minutes (or, as Bold would have it, also for stalling reasons to get a ruling).

    I am fine with it, thats simply a different opinion, my own is not superior in worth. We stated reasons throughout the game as to why we post in the time we do, that will or will not be accepted by tournament officials and will or will not influence any potential ruling.

    Garg, you know the game thread, say the word here please, rule that the TT is illegal, and we get over this issue, no questions asked.

    By now, a lot of people will think something like “what the hell is going on here…”, so I wont comment any further. Questioning and answering could go on forever, contents 99% predictably anyway.

  • '17 '16 '15 '12

    If its official, then lets continue.

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