*BELLS RINGING* THE TIME HAS COME!

@CWO:

@LHoffman:

@CWO:

By the way I once visited the Washington Navy Yard, where one of the Enterprise’s anchors is on display. � That was a real treat to see.

I was in Seattle last year and looked out onto the Sound and knew that the navy yard was just a few miles across the way. Wish I could have gotten over there.

Um, I was referring to Washington D.C.  I’d love to visit the naval facilities in the Puget Sound area, but the only place on the West Coast where I’ve been is San Diego – which I was lucky enough to visit at the day when the USS Midway crossed over to the pier where she became a museum ship.  I still have the CV-41 baseball cap I picked up as a souvenir.

My apologies, I thought you were talking about Bremerton, WA. I didn’t know that DC had a navy yard, being on a river and all.

Nature’s Metropolis: William Cronon
Sugar Creek: John Faragher

Both of those have quite a lot of primary sources in them.  Actual photocopies, and sometimes they are a bit hard to read since the handwritting back then is not what we are used to reading.

You may also feel free to read up on Kennecott Journey by William Cronon;  Iseminger’s “Culture and Environment in the Ameircas”; White’s “The Middle Ground” I’d focus on the first few chapters, but feel free to read the entire book if you want.

As for “Democracy in America” I just had a brain stumble and forgot the name of the author.  However, a brief search would have immediately gotten it for you, Alexis de Touqsville.  He’s kinda famous you know, and he very specifically states in numerous sections of his novel (which is a good read, but very long!) that women had universal sufferage even though they did not have the right to go vote if they were married.

In fact, my entire thesis on women being equal to men, in society if not genetically, is almost a carbon copy of his arguments.

After you finish all that, if you want more sources, let me know.  Just about anything written about history of the area (either Illinois itself or the United States) from non-biased sources before 1940 will reinforce my argument (and Mr. Toucquville’s.)

Gee, btw, all that took roughly 1 minute.  I’m surprised you couldn’t go find those sources yourself given the information I gave you (you know, the titles of the books and all.)

3 days, 3 hours, and 10 minutes, all spread throughout a little over a year.  So I guess you guys are just blowing me away!  (Is that bad, or good?)  :-P

Ha! Haven’t you seen The Simpsons? There was a comet coming for them, but they found some way to destroy it or deflect it or something. If we can remember what they did, there’s hope for us yet.

(and of course there’s Armageddon style 8). The movie, I mean.)

Jeepers :) I think we can all agree that “ctm” is right. Let’s leave it at that

@cystic:

@Deviant:Scripter:

I believe the situation could have easily gone on for a matter of years, and we’d still have to use military force eventually. If not with Saddam, it would’ve been against one of his psychotic kids.

I believe, in the wake of 9/11, most people would be MUCH MORE hesitant about giving a guy like that more time to disarm, especially given the 12 years he’s already had. The circumstances and potential consequences are just too great to sit by and watch…HOPING one day he’ll have a dramatic change of mind.

Does anybody deny that the only reason Saddam even “agreed” to inspections was because the US military was parked on his border?

i will agree with that. I’ll also agree that it was costing the US a fortune to park the machine there. Furthermore, i’ll agree that many other nations, particularly Canada and European nations (including Russia) helped speed this conflict along by being sideline wimps. I think that if more pressure had come from the international community much earlier, this war may have been avoided - if only because Bush would have lost his excuses to invade (although the regime change card would likely have still been played). Still, although i have little other than my gut to go on here, i believe that this is not a reason for a bunch of people carrying guns to march into someone else’s country in order to kill a bunch of other people . . . .

All true. I just don’t see how war could’ve been avoided in the end, without letting Saddam Hussein pretty much have his way for an indefinite amount of time.

JMO–a lot of great observations here from the other side as well.

Ozone27

im telling you 9/11 is highly over rated [read the forum]

What did the CA legislature do about this idea? :-?