Delta +1

@wittmann:

I like it very much.

Cool… of course we would have to modify some of the advantages to fit this system.

1914 house ruling is doomed in this forum

@CWO:

@Young:

The problem as it is right now (if it actually is a problem) is that the Axis powers (Japan in particular) will absolutely profit the most for capturing enemy cities (Japan will essentially claim up to $9 for cities that are easy to take and hold), so to add a Chinese capital city for no reason but to give Japan yet another target to profit from may unbalance the game.

Fair enough.  As I said, it was just an idea that I tossed in for fun in case it it turned out to be worth considering.  It arose from the discussion of the player capitals versus the cities, and I didn’t scrutinize it in any detail because I wanted to leave it up to you to decide if it worked or not in the context of your house rules.  So I have no problem with the idea turning out to be problematic.

No problem, I greatly appreciate all your suggestions and there have been some great modifications because of them, I guess my problem is that I have played over in my head a lot of angles to these objectives, and it’s very easy to tip the scales of balance when restructuring an entire game mechanic like this.

Does anyone knows why the more expensive units (i.e. cruiser 12$ and battleship 20$) are not able to bombard a only one shot on the coast once they win a sea battle offshore?

For me, it seems many times you cannot use their only special capability.
For all other cheaper units their is no such thing.

In what way does this rule is necessary to keep the balance?

In game terms, since a turn is three months long why a cruiser or a BB cannot fight the enemy ships, then help the amphibious assault since you cannot make any debarkment if you are not able to destroy the enemy naval unit?

I’m pretty sure that, during WWII, many cruisers and battleships were able to destroy others defending surface vessels and, some hours later, support with their heavy guns the marines launching an assault on a beach.

If both battles have been simultaneous (like Leyte Gulf Battle) that would be OK, but, in the game, if you loose or retreat no transport can unload their troops.

Anyway, I wish to suggest a different rule to simulate that cruiser and BB can do many things during a three month turn. Or can make a more intensive bombardment if their is no other assignment.

1- Always allow one coastal bombardment per surviving cruiser or battleship after a naval battle and before the amphibious assault (limited by the number of ground unit coming out of transports). If the BB was damaged during the previous battle, halfed the attack: 1@2 instead of 1@4.
Or we can logically say that a damaged BB have to repair and is unable to support a debarkment. This would make sens.

2- When their is no naval battle, allows 2 rolls of dice per cruiser and BB present (limited by the number of ground unit coming out of transports) but take only the better result for each one (like LHTR for heavy bomber) .

Example: 3 inf are part of an amphibious combat, so 3 cruisers (A, B, C) out of 4 (D) cruisers offshore can roll dices @3:
A 1,2 / B 3,3 / C 4,5,/ D not allowed
thus making 2 hits even though four dices make 3 and under.

In this way, the expensive units can always be use at their full potential.

Option B: we can instead halfed the attack value of cruiser and BB that made naval battle before a debarkment: cruiser get 1@1/ BB get 1@2.
And a damaged BB have to be repaired and is unable to support a debarkment.

What do you think? Do you have some answers for my previous questions?
Thanks.

@Imperious:

Ok if you want more units make it basic:

3 Carriers: CVB, CV, and CVL
2 Cruisers: BC and CA
2 Destroyers: DD and DE
2 battleships: BB, BBB

CVB= 3 planes, 3 hits, 2-3-3-
CV= OOB
CL= 1 hit, 1 plane, 0-1-3-
BC= 3-3-3-2 hits, 16 cost, 3 SB
CA= OOB
DD=OOB
DE= preemptive strike negated, plus boosts each transport to 1 defense ( no more one sub kills all thing) 1-2-3-7
BB=oob
BBB= 3 hits, 5-5-3-24, sb at 5

I don’t know if this hypothetical Armored cruiser CA will be born someday and can be useful.
But if the case, the extra hit should cost 25% of base price of OOB Cruiser (C Light/Heavy). If BB A4D4, 1hit 2=16 IPCs1.25=20 IPCs  2 hits. Which means 3 IPCs for 1.25% of 12 IPCs.
CA A3D3M3C15 2 hits, SBombard 1@3. vs
CB Battlecruiser A4D4M3C16 1hit, SBombard 1@4.
Will it makes both more viable unit vs nearer cost: 2DDs, A4D4 (2 hits) 16 IPCs?
But CB is still different from a M2 BB, with 2 hits.
Same guns but no the same armored bulkhead. Jus 1 little hit and it is over.

I have noticed there are about 20 threads on this topic.  I am bumping this as it was popular months ago.

Note: This is not a complete list of all the modifications we’ve made in Phase 1. I will try to continually add to this as new ideas are posted. Please post any suggestions to the following rules at the Main Topic Board http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6470.0 or directly at one of the following related AARHE Phase 1 specific topics:

National Units http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6469.0
Unit Purchases and Mobilization http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6471.0
Income http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6473.0

Victory Cities

Every nation starts with 7 victory cities (VCs), each worth a certain number of victory city points (VCPs). Of these 7 VCs, 1 is designated as a capital (worth 5 VCPs), 1 other is designated as a major VC (worth 3 VCPs), 2 others are designated as moderate VCs (worth 2 VCPs each), and the last 3 are designated as a minor VCs (worth 1 VCP each).

The following is the list of VCs, the corresponding VCP value for that VC and the territory in which each is located. The VCs are organized by nation.

Russia:
Moscow (5)–Russia
Stalingrad (3)–Caucasus
Leningrad (2)–Karelia
Novosibirsk (2)–Novosibirsk
Archangel (1)–Archangel
Almaty (1)–Kazakh
Vladivostok (1)–Buryatia

Germany:
Berlin (5)–Germany
Rome (3)–S. Europe
Paris (2)–W. Europe
Kiev (2)–Ukraine
Warsaw (1)–E. Europe
Oslo (1)–Norway
Kursk (1)–W. Russia

UK:
London (5)–UK
Toronto (3)–E. Canada
Calcutta (2)–India
Sydney (2)–Australia
Cairo (1)—Anglo-Egypt
Damascus (1)–Trans-Jordan
Cape Town (1)–South Africa

Japan:
Tokyo (5)—Japan
Changchun (3)–Manchuria
Shanghai (2)–Kwangtung
Singapore (2)–FIC
Manila (1)—Philippines
Guadalcanal (1)–Solomon Islands
Milne Bay (1)–New Guinea

US:
Washington (5)–E. US
Los Angeles (3)–W. US
Chicago (2)–C. US
Chongqing (2)–China
Ãœrümqi (1)–Sinkiang
Honolulu (1)–Hawaii
Sao Paulo (1)–Brazil

Infantry Unit Placement at VCs

ICs no longer build infantry units. Infantry units are assembled only in territories containing VCs. They are still purchased and mobilized at the same time as non-infantry units. In order to purchase and place any infantry in a VC, that VC must have been in your control at the start of your turn (placing an infantry unit in a VC can be considered the same as placing the infantry in the territory containing that VC).

For each of the 7 VCs that are originally owned by each nation, the maximum number of infantry that may be purchased and placed at the VC per turn is equal to the corresponding value of VCPs except for the following nation-specific exceptions:

Exception for the nations of Russia, Germany and Japan: If the VC is not connected to the capital VC thorugh a continuous line of friendly territories (not including SZs or neutral territories), then the maximum infantry placement is 1 less than the corresponding VCP value.

Exception for the Western Allies (UK and US): The maximum infantry placement for the capital VC is 3.

For each captured VC, the infantry placement limit is half of the VCP value for that captured VC (rounded down). This means that 0 infantry may be purchased and placed at a captured minor VC, 1 infantry at a captured moderate or major VC, and 2 infantry at a captured capital VC.

If any territory containing a VC is attacked before the defender’s first turn, then the defender of that VC gets to immediately purchase any number of infantry not exceeding more than the respective maximums outlined above and place them at that VC. These infantry units are purchased and placed just before the battle takes place. This rule applies only before the defender’s first turn. For example, it can apply to Russia attacking the Ukraine on Russia’s first turn but cannot apply to Germany attacking Karelia on Germany’s first turn (since Russia already had their first turn by the time Germany gets to move).Â

Non-Infantry Unit Placement at ICs

All non-infantry units are still built at ICs, however, unit placement limits at ICs have changed. The total IPC value of all non-infantry units placed per turn at any IC in a given territory may not exceed 4 times the IPC value of that territory. If a certain territory contains both a VC and an IC, then the infantry placement limits for the VC are treated independently from the non-infantry placement limits for the IC.

The cost of purchasing new ICs now depends on the territory in which the IC will be placed. Any player purchasing an IC must declare where the IC will be placed during the ‘Purchase Units’ phase. The IC is still placed during the ‘Mobilize New Units’ phase. To determine the cost of an IC in a given territory, multiply the number of IPCs for that territory by the number of VCPs within that territory and subtract this number from the base IC cost of 15. For example, an IC in India, FIC or Kwangtung now costs 15 - (3 IPCs)(2 VCPs) = 9 IPCs. An IC in W. Europe or C. US now costs only 15 – (6 IPCs)(2 VCPs) = 3 IPCs.  All ICs in territories not containing a VC cost 15 IPCs since 0 VCPs multiplied by any number of IPCs always results in a reduction of no IPCs from the base cost.

An IC can only be placed in a territory that was in your possession at the start of your turn. Furthermore, non-infantry units may only be placed at an IC that was there at the start of your turn. (This means once you take over a territory you have to wait 1 turn to build an IC and yet another turn to build units).

There are 2 types of ICs, initial ICs and purchased ICs. All territories containing either a capital or major VC automatically start with an iniitial IC (note that this just adds ICs to Manchuria and E. Canada). These inital ICs do not have to be represented by an IC piece on the game board since they cannot be moved or destroyed so they are always present in that territory.  All purchased ICs are represented by an IC piece and can be destroyed at the defender’s discretion when the attacker wins the battle over that territory.

Infantry Unit Costs

Infantry purchased to be placed in that nation’s capital cost 2 IPCs each.
Infantry purchased to be placed in all other territories of that nation’s color cost 3 IPCs each.
Infantry purchased to be placed in any captured territory cost 4 IPCs each.

Victory Conditions

Just like in the AAR box rules, players agree before the start of the game which set of victory conditions they will use; Total Victory, Major Victory or Minor Victory.

Total Victory: The winning team is the first to control every territory by the end of any US player’s turn.

Major Victory: The Axis win if they control 45 VCPs at the end of any US player’s turn. Likewise, the Allies win if they control 55 VCPs at the end of any US player’s turn.

Minor Victory: Both sides bid the number of turns that they want the game to last if they are the Axis. The team that bids the higher number of turns gets to play as the Axis. The game will automatically end after the US player’s turn on the turn number that won the bid. The team controlling the majority of the VCPs at that time wins the game. Note: This is unlike the major victory conditions or traditional victory city rules in that the winner is not the first side to reach a certain number of VCPs, but the side who maintains control of the majority of the VCPs by a certain turn number agreed upon by both sides. This is intended to better fix the game duration and to allow for quicker games if players are pressured by a time constraint.

Changes to Fighter Movement

Fighters that begin a certain turn on an aircraft carrier must also end that turn on an aircraft carrier, unless the aircraft carrier they started the turn on is destroyed during that turn. Note: Fighters do not have to start and end the turn on the same aircraft carrier. Fighters that start the turn in a territory can always end the turn on either an aircraft carrier or in a territory.

As before, the sum of the spaces moved during the combat and non-combat move phases cannot exceed the total movement for the fighter, however, now all fighters must count 1 extra move during the combat phase whenever they conduct a SZ battle.

Fighters that don’t move in the combat move phase of a certain turn may then move in the non-combat move phase of that turn the number of spaces up to their maximum movement, land in a friendly territory, and then again move up to their maximum movement to land in another friendly territory.

Turn Sequence

1. Purchase units
2. Collect income
3. Combat Move
4. Conduct Combat
5. Place newly purchased units
6. Noncombat move
7. Develop weapons

Optional Rules

Technology

Radar: Every surface naval unit and fighter unit now detects enemy subs on a roll of 4 or less instead of just a 2 or less. Also, every AA gun (max of 3 may fire per territory) may detect enemy air units flying over the territory on a roll of 4 or less.

Rockets: You may purchase rockets at a cost of 2 IPCs each. Any number of rockets may be fired from any number of your territories, provided that every one of those territories is contiguously connected to your capital. Once a rocket is fired from a territory, it may move up to 2 spaces to reach an enemy IC. The amount of damage done to the IC is equal to the larger of 2 dice rolls. Always roll for each rocket individually (i.e always roll only 2 dice at a time). You may rocket attack any number of enemy ICs, but the max damage done to any IC is equal to the territory’s IPC value.

Super Subs= All your subs attack/ defend and interdict enemy commerce at a roll of 3 or less. Also, subs may move 3 in the non-combat move phase (Note that subs still can’t move in both the combat and non-combat move phases in the same turn).

Long-range aircraft= All your fighters move 6. All your bombers that don’t move in the combat move phase get to move 8 in the non-combat move phase of that same turn. Whenever any of your bombers get shot down you have a choice of either (a) paying 10 IPCs and losing the ability of bombing the enemy in that same turn or (b) assigning the bomber as a casualty as usual.

Jet Fighters= Your AA gun units hit enemy air units on a 1 or 2. Your fighters are detected by enemy AA gun units at half the  number they would otherwise detect them (i.e. they detect your fighters only on a 1 without radar and on a 1 or 2 with radar). Also, your fighters defend at a 5.

Heavy Bombers= Enemy AA gun units detect your bombers at half the number that they would otherwise detect them (i.e. they detect your bombers only on a 1 without radar and on a 1 or 2 with radar). Also, take the larger of 2 rolls to determine damage during tactical and strategic bombing.

Rules regarding techs:

Tech Development Re-startup fee:
If on any turn a given nation doesn’t purchase any tech rolls, then on the next turn that the nation buys at least 1 tech roll, the nation must pay an additional 5 IPCs as a re-startup penalty.

Each tech roll still costs 5 IPCs. No nation may spend more than half their IPCs in the Technology Development phase of that turn.

The tech/s you are rolling to develop are declared before you roll. If you roll the same number as the ‘target number’ associated with the tech (see above) then you develop the tech. If you roll the number that equals 7 minus the target number, then you achieved a technology breakthrough. A technology breakthrough makes it much easier to develop that specific tech later in the game. For every technology breakthrough you achieve in a certain tech category, you get 1 additional free die roll in every turn that you buy at least 1 tech roll for that same tech. For example if you achieved 2 breakthroughs in Super Subs (i.e. you previously you rolled a 4 two separate times while attempting to get Super Subs) but still have not developed Super Subs, then on the next turn that you buy a tech roll for Super Subs you get to roll a total of 3 dice to develop that tech (1 for the purchased roll + 2 free die rolls for the 2 breakthroughs). Breakthroughs may only be used in the same tech category that you obtained them in.

Diplomatic Relations

(This section still under construction)

Russian Xenophobia

Neutral Aid

Joint Strike

Soviet-Japanese Non-Aggression Treaty

Lend-Lease

when you feel happy with the infantry placement rules just tell me and I’ll paste them into the main document

I hope you’ll repost in table format though  :wink: