Get the Brit Inf back in Egypt and a Russian Bomber for 2nd Edition

@thinrich83 Yes.

@aequitas-et-veritas said in taking out the Brit destroyers?:

@crockett36 said in taking out the Brit destroyers?:

@superbattleshipyamato try it out. If you get lucky and burn planes as casualties you are immediately convoying England. Usually in both 109 and 106.

Has no upside only downsides to it.
The more Planes Germany looses, the less power of threat it has against Russia and later UK and US Naval assets.
So this is simply a bad idea.

You may try to kill sz 106,109 and 110 and buy an Bmbr w. Subs first round or a CV w. Sub and kill the rest of RN on round two.

But this the maximium of feelings you can get from it.
Usually when some of these battles (sz 106,109,110) went south, you should def. primarily focus on Russia alone.

The reason why we even attack the most of RN first round is to clear and standoff against sz 110.
When th US enters the war and controlls sz 110 along with UK RN,
It is on Germany to defend the Homeland a fight two frontlines.

From 110 you reach everywhere you need as the Allied Player,
wich is:
Gibraltar, sz92,Germany, Western Germany, Norway, Denmark, Normandy, Belgium, Morrocco, Algeria.

This is a lot of Ground to cover for Axis.
Therefore sz 110 is a vital Keypoint!

The idea should be to delay as long as possible the process of Allies controlling sz110!!

I’m not an Axis guy, but I understand what you are saying. You didn’t exactly address the actual ipcs involved. 110 will not be held t1. They will run away or be killed t2. Especially if the g1 purchase is 3 figs.

@the-spaceman said in The Sneaky Russian:

Hey Everyone,

I corrected some of your numbers since they were off.

Just came up with an oddball idea and am wondering if anyone has tried it or whether it would make sence, ruleswise and competitively.

In OOB trying to gain extra Russia income in this way is a longtime and widely accepted strategy. Most Axis Players will do their best to deny this outcome. In BM3 they removed the possibility for Africa and the Middle East income as most Players felt this was kind of a cheesy rule for Africa and the Middle East and meant more for Europe.

The Goal
Russia gets 3 IPCs for every Italian/German or Pro-axis territory.
Persia IPCs +3
Iraq IPCs+2 +3
Tobruk.IPCs.+3
Lybia IPCs +1 + 3
Ethiopia +1 + 3
Italian Somalialand + 3

22 IPCs for Russia

Finland + 2 + 3
Norway +3 + 3

11 IPCs for Russia

Total + 33 IPCs for Russia

Methods.
Group 1 (depends on German DOW)
The forces in and around Leningrad should be able to take out the Finland/Norway forces maybe with some extra tanks/planes built in Leningrad.

Pretty unlikely. Most Axis Players are going to bring two additional units to Norway on G1 giving the Axis 9 ground units. Add in German and Italian planes and only a major push by the Russians would have any chance to taking Finland and Norway. If the Russkies tried this, one of two things are going to happen, 1) Moscow is going to fall with so many troops in the north or 2) the Germans will divert their army north and wipe out the Russian Army Group North on the cheap.

Group 2 (Turns 1-2)
The 2 mobile units in Stalingrad go south activating Persia and then taking Iraq by about turn 2-3, with help of Iraninan infantry and maybe a aircraft. 2 inf from caucasus go south also.
(not sure if tanks can blitz through empty neutrals? It states friendly or enemy but is pro allied counted as friendly?)

Armor cannot blitz through a friendly aka pro-allied neutral. Most commonly you will see UK take Northwest Persia to open this route south for the Russians. In addition, the UK will strafe or try to clear Iraq for Russian capture. This one is a given if UK is willing to give it up. There is a LOT of debate if this is a wise move or not. Helps Russia in the short run and hurts UK in the long run.

Group 3 (Turns 3-5)
A short hop from Iraq is Tobruk/Lybia. The single tank might be all you need to grab both of these if the UK player has been helpful by clearing the med of Italian Shipping and strafing any Italian units in africa.

Again, the Axis Player is going to be doing their best to make sure Tobruk, Libya and possibly Tunisia do not fall into Russian hands. This is definitely a legitimate strategy for UK to try and clear those territories for Russian occupation. Very powerful if successful.

Group 4 (Turns 3-5)
Another part of this strategy involve the UK now really going fully pro communist. The British use their transport in the persian gulf to send 1-2 Iranian (now Russian) infantry to Africa to land in Italian Somalialand by about turn 4-5. If the UK hasnt already grabbed Ethiopia as well they can pick this one up too. On T1 the UK should pull units out of Anglo Egytian Sudan and then counter attack the Italian units in UK coloured territories. We dont want UK getting 1 IPC for ethiopia when its worth 4 to the russians.

If the Italian Player allows the UK to clear Ethiopia and Italian Somaliland easily they are doing a piss poor job. Taking one of the two is a very good possibility for the Russians and if the UK is willing to risk losing a plane or two possibly both are up for grabs.

Group 5 (Turns 6-7)
Bulgaria +1/4 Albania +1/4 Rumania+3/6. If the Strategy is working so far keep it Rolling with the Russians advancing through Southern Europe for +14 IPCs. If these areas are lightly defended UK can Can-opener them with bombers flying out of bases in the med

Never going to happen. No matter what happens in the Middle East and Africa the Germans are going to be on the doorstep of Moscow so no Russians are heading west.

Results.
The additional 30 IPCs for Russia will counter any losses Germany has inflicted. Maybe keeping Russias production around 40-50 even when the Germans are at the gates of Moscow.

Group 2 and 3 are easily taken if UK agrees to standard cooperation and Group 4 if a higher level of cooperation is achieved.

Group 1 requires a tough fight and will probable result in heavy losses of men and territories as well.

The Group 5 is the fantasy scenario and represents a “winning More” strategy

Conclusion.
The kicker for me in this strategy seems to be the ablity to turn zero IPC territories into 3 IPC territories. This includes Tobruk and Italian Somalialand. There is no reason that the British would want these as they gain no benefit.

The other practical benefit is that bumping russian IPC output puts boots on the ground where they are most needed.

The main questions are around the speed in which Russia can move to capture these territories vs the speed that Germans can attack?

Secondly does the benefit to Russia outweigh the cost in units lost and the cost to UK of not capturing these territories?

In summary, I would say it is very easy for the Russians to get $3 out of Africa and very possibly $6. If they get $9 or $12 that is great though unusual. The Middle East for $5 is a given if UK is willing to give it up and risk a plane or two. Europe is never going to happen unless in the end game and Norway/Finland is a lot more difficult and risky than you may realize.

Excellent strategizing and thinking!

Good looking sheets Alpha, not bad at all… sorry I haven’t made my card deck available, but it’s coming soon.

Cheers

@ch0senfktard:

Russia doesn’t get the bonus.
The rule doesn’t say “Axis powers that Russia is at war with.”
So, Germany can deny Russia’s bonus even if they aren’t at war with Russia.

Another thing, if Italy captured a Russian territory on its turn, Germany could noncombat move into that territory without declaring war.

Such a lame rule

Thanks for the welcome Variance!

You are guessing correctly ^.^:
If the UK (in our group) sees that Germany is going ‘full bore’ (I guess that means throwing everything at Moscow to defeat it G6 or G7), then it starts channeling its fighters from wherever it must build them (Britain, Canada, South Africa and India) into Russia and finally into Moscow. All this happens Either via the northern route or via Persia/Africa (building a key AB here and/or there).
  UK is OK to sacrifice its ships in the med. to keep every plane alive, annihilate the Italian Navy first and to prevent any new axis ships to appear there.
Subsequently the aircraft help to destroy the Italian presence in Africa (from set-up plus maybe 1 turn of reinforcements) and then the aircraft flies into the Middle east, ready to go into Russia whilst trying not to disrupt Russia’s NO of having Archangelsk-route. But the UK fighters in russia are more important than the Russian NO if the threat is high enough.

This is why our UK is always strong while at the same time being able to be in Russia with their FTRs on time, giving Germany (statistically) no chance on Moscow, not even if it goes full bore. If it doesnt go in full bore than all those UK FTR can go elsewhere as a very flexible force. For example, fly into the areas in Europe that the US captures, stay in the med, fly to India to recapture Calcutta or prevent it from being taken… you name it).

So perhaps we don’t play Germany as optimally as possible ;-).
The best I have ever come up with myself is hitting Moscow with around 230 attack factors G6 (buying 4 STR G5, 4 TAC/STR G4, ARM+MECH G3&G2, ART+INF G1) while Russia alone I believe cannot have more than around 195 defense factors, their AAA still excluded. Combined with the UK FTR however, this can easily be too much over the 230 German attack factors. This combined with sufficiently enough more allied units, a full bore axis attack on Moscow is in our group a statistical fail.

Anyway, a quick calculation shows me that an all STR German build can reach to approx. 200 Attack factors and has way less defense factors so my guess is it will fail to deliver the message to Moscow.

I am looking for Axis strategies to counter the allied dominance (in my eyes) but Perhaps I should then move on to another thread or start one myself  8-).

I will definately look into the tripleA program if I have the time, thanks!

@Gargantua:

I’ve only asked about 4 times…

I wish you luck in your quest Y.G. :P

As soon as I get my copy, I’ll cut the sheets at the binding, and take it to staples for Scanning… but it will be a bit before it arrives.

Way to step up G, I will be waiting patiently for that file.

@Sgt.:

Also, is it defender’s choice whether to take interceptor hits on strategic bombers or tac bombers?

No, it is the attacker’s choice, as they are his bombers.

Sorry, that’s what I meant. Thanks for the quick response!