BotA U-505 vs. Pug

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.7

Game History

Round :15

Combat Move - France
            6 Artillerys, 5 Chasseurss, 29 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss and 20 Howitzers moved from Gascony to Navarre
                  Spain take Navarre from KingdomOfPrussia
            1 Hussars moved from Languedoc to Aragon
            1 Hussars moved from Languedoc to Aragon
            1 Dragoons moved from Languedoc to Aragon
            1 Horse_Artillery moved from Languedoc to Aragon
            1 Hussars moved from Burgundy to Valais
                  France take Valais from KingdomOfPrussia
            1 Hussars moved from Valais to Provence
            2 Battleships moved from SZ33 to SZ41
            1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines moved from Wessex to SZ34
            1 Barque, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines moved from SZ34 to SZ41
            1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines moved from SZ41 to Galacia

Purchase Units - France
            France buy 1 Brigantine, 10 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Hussars; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - France
            Battle in Galacia
                France attack with 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines
                UnitedKingdom defend with 1 Dragoons
                    France roll dice for 2 Battleships in Galacia, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 Dragoons owned by the UnitedKingdom lost in Galacia
                France win, taking Galacia from UnitedKingdom with 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for UnitedKingdom: 1 Dragoons
            Battle in Aragon
                France attack with 1 Dragoons, 1 Horse_Artillery and 2 Hussarss
                UnitedKingdom defend with 1 Fusiliers
                    France roll dice for 1 Dragoons, 1 Horse_Artillery and 2 Hussarss in Aragon, round 1 :  1/0 hits
                    KingdomOfPrussia roll dice for 1 Fusiliers in Aragon, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 Fusiliers owned by the UnitedKingdom and 1 Hussars owned by the France lost in Aragon
                France win, taking Aragon from KingdomOfPrussia with 1 Dragoons, 1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Hussars remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for France: 1 Hussars
                Casualties for UnitedKingdom: 1 Fusiliers

Non Combat Move - France
            1 Dragoons moved from Languedoc to Provence
            1 Dragoons moved from Languedoc to Champagne
            1 Dragoons moved from Burgundy to Champagne
            1 Hussars moved from Burgundy to Champagne
            1 Hussars moved from Auvergne to Champagne
            1 Hussars moved from Gascony to Champagne
            1 Hussars moved from Languedoc to Champagne
            1 Horse_Artillery moved from Burgundy to Catalonia
            1 Cuirassiers moved from Orleanais to Gascony
            7 Fusilierss moved from Orleanais to Champagne
            1 Fusiliers moved from Flanders to Champagne
            1 Hussars moved from Languedoc to Champagne
            4 Horse_Artillerys and 3 Hussarss moved from Languedoc to Valencia
            1 Chasseurs and 1 Marines moved from Wessex to SZ34
            1 Chasseurs and 1 Marines moved from SZ34 to Brittany
            1 Cutter moved from SZ34 to SZ29
            1 Battleship and 3 Corvettes moved from SZ33 to SZ35

Place Units - France
            1 Brigantine placed in SZ34
            10 Fusilierss placed in Orleanais
            1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Hussars placed in Brittany

Turn Complete - France
            France collect 62 PUs; end with 62 PUs total
            Objective Balancing Convoy Income for balanced game: France met a national objective for an additional -6 PUs; end with 56 PUs

Territory Summary for France :

Valencia : 1 flag, 4 Horse_Artillerys and 3 Hussarss
    North Wales : 1 flag
    SZ35 : 1 flag, 1 Battleship and 3 Corvettes
    SZ28 : 1 flag
    SZ41 : 1 flag, 1 Barque and 2 Battleships
    Lazes : 1 flag, 1 Ney
    SZ29 : 1 flag, 3 Battleships, 6 Brigantines, 3 Corvettes and 8 Cutters
    Flanders : 1 flag
    Egypt : 1 flag
    SZ34 : 1 flag, 1 Barque and 1 Brigantine
    Aragon : 1 flag, 1 Dragoons, 1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Hussars
    Wessex : 1 flag
    Orleanais : 1 flag, 1 Capital, 10 Fusilierss and 3 Mortella_Towers
    Sinai : 1 flag
    Catalonia : 1 flag, 1 Horse_Artillery
    Gascony : 1 flag, 1 Cuirassiers
    Provence : 1 flag, 2 Dragoonss and 1 Hussars
    Galacia : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines
    Leinster : 1 flag
    Brittany : 1 flag, 1 Chasseurs, 1 Fortress, 1 Fusiliers, 1 General, 1 Horse_Artillery, 1 Hussars and 1 Marines
    Navarre : 1 flag, 6 Artillerys, 5 Chasseurss, 29 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss and 20 Howitzers
    Champagne : 1 flag, 10 Chasseurss, 2 Dragoonss, 17 Fusilierss, 1 Howitzer and 5 Hussarss
    Ulster : 1 flag

Production/PUs Summary :

France : 62 / 56
    UnitedKingdom : 41 / 44
    Spain : 45 / 36
    KingdomOfPrussia : 28 / 33
    Sweden : 26 / 29
    AustrianEmpire : 36 / 36
    OttomanEmpire : 32 / 34
    Russia : 50 / 50

@pug6000:

1. Till last round I always had the chance to take Madrid.

Yes, I accepted that. Which is why I didn’t try to defend it until I was absolutely sure that you were moving on it.

2. I had the chance to hold Champagne for at least 2 more rounds.

I figured 3 rounds. But, I was prepared to start building French mortars to speed up the process.

Still U-505 got it right - the Med was in danger and I wanted to increase my chances to win in that area. So I moved towards Spain. The question was: what could he do. He had to follow with the French army to threaten to retake Madrid.

I agree. It was the best move. Even if the French can finally remove your army from Spain, they will be left with a pile of units that are too far away from anything to be useful for many turns.

So far you are more or less right. Now comes the interesting part. You dont have to take the capital to destroy a country. If I stay in Spain, Spain is crippled. It looses most of it’s income and UK has all time it wants to gain control of the seas.

I agree again. If you had taken Madrid, I had planned to use the French cavalry to threaten Rome and help the Spanish hold the Med while the rest of the French army finished off the Coalition army in Spain. By not taking Madrid and keeping your combined army intact, you have forced me to make a distasteful choice of my own. I now have to send my cavalry to Spain and I have no choice but to retreat the Spanish navy and give the English back all of the gains and more that my navy made in the last few rounds.

Here I should better stop and wait for the next Spanish move to continue the explanation. There is one more important point, but I am curious about the French and Spanish move. So far U-505 was really good to anticipate my plans, so I wonder if he again knows what I am up to  :-)

Well, not taking Lisbon with the Austrian cavalry is my big clue. I believed your intent was to take Lisbon with the English dragoon and then build an encampment there. I have many reasons to think so.

1. The French army is too far away to prevent you from stacking there which gives you time to build up more ground forces to defend it.

2. It immediately threatens the Spanish convoy zone. Another reason I have to retreat my Spanish navy.

3. Prussia and Austria are both locked in tight struggles of their own elsewhere so building and supplying an encampment leaves them lean in their other fights.

4. The English have a lot of disposable income since the French are interdicting their ability to build ships in Essex and not making large landings of troops on the English island to force you to defend it.

The English encampment in Lisbon seems like the logical choice. It makes perfect sense.

i know pug knows this, but i hope u505 knows this.

that -10 national objective that is hitting spain every turn: it will happen no matter what

if spain loses that convoy, and loses the rest of spain, except her capital, spain will:

make 5 or slightly more each round
then lose 10

ends up with 0 (zero) income (cus you can’t go negative)

think of it like global 1940’s blockades if you want: an american fleet in sea zone 6 can kill all of japan’s “land income”
(this is just to help visualize it, they are different rules for different games)

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.7

Game History

Round :15

Combat Move - Spain
            1 Fusiliers moved from New Castille to Estremadura
                  Spain take Estremadura from KingdomOfPrussia
            3 Fusilierss moved from New Castille to Andalusia
            2 Dragoonss and 1 Horse_Artillery moved from Valencia to Andalusia
            2 Mariness moved from Catalonia to SZ57
            2 Frigates and 2 Mariness moved from SZ57 to SZ54
            2 Mariness moved from SZ54 to Andalusia
            2 Mariness moved from Algeria to SZ58
            1 Marines moved from Algeria to SZ58
            1 Barque, 1 Corvette and 3 Mariness moved from SZ58 to SZ54
            3 Mariness moved from SZ54 to Andalusia
            1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Mortars moved from Algeria to Areg

Purchase Units - Spain
            Spain buy 1 Chasseurs, 2 Cutters, 2 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 2 Mortella_Towers; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - Spain
            Battle in Andalusia
                Spain attack with 2 Dragoonss, 3 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 5 Mariness
                KingdomOfPrussia defend with 1 Horse_Artillery
                    Spain roll dice for 2 Frigates in Andalusia, round 1 :  1/0 hits
                    1 Horse_Artillery owned by the KingdomOfPrussia lost in Andalusia
                Spain win, taking Andalusia from UnitedKingdom with 2 Dragoonss, 3 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 5 Mariness remaining. Battle score for attacker is 5
                Casualties for KingdomOfPrussia: 1 Horse_Artillery
            Battle in Areg
                Spain attack with 1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Mortars
                Neutral defend with 1 Fusiliers
                    Spain roll dice for 1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Mortars in Areg, round 1 :  2/1 hits
                    Neutral roll dice for 1 Fusiliers in Areg, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    1 Fusiliers owned by the Neutral lost in Areg
                Spain win, taking Areg from Neutral with 1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Mortars remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Neutral: 1 Fusiliers

Non Combat Move - Spain
            1 General moved from Oran to Tangiers
            1 General moved from Algeria to Oran
            1 Barque moved from SZ59 to SZ64
            1 Cuirassiers moved from Sardinia to SZ64
            1 Barque and 1 Cuirassiers moved from SZ64 to SZ60
            1 Battleship, 1 Brigantine, 2 Corvettes, 4 Cutters and 2 Frigates moved from SZ59 to SZ58
            2 Cutters moved from SZ58 to SZ54
            1 Cutter moved from SZ60 to SZ58
            1 Cutter moved from SZ61 to SZ58

Place Units - Spain
            2 Mortella_Towers placed in Majorca
            1 Chasseurs, 2 Fusilierss and 1 Horse_Artillery placed in New Castille
            1 Cutter placed in SZ58
            1 Cutter placed in SZ54

Turn Complete - Spain
            Spain collect 47 PUs; end with 47 PUs total
            Objective Balancing Convoy Income for balanced game: Spain met a national objective for an additional -10 PUs; end with 37 PUs

Territory Summary for Spain :

Sardinia : 1 flag, 2 Fortresss and 3 Mortella_Towers
    SZ64 : 1 flag, 1 Cutter
    SZ61 : 1 flag, 1 Brigantine
    El Erg : 1 flag
    Tangiers : 1 flag, 1 General
    Oran : 1 flag, 1 General
    Alemtejo : 1 flag
    Majorca : 1 flag, 1 Encampment, 1 Fusiliers and 2 Mortella_Towers
    Atlas : 1 flag
    Estremadura : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers
    Provence : 1 flag
    SZ60 : 1 flag, 1 Barque, 1 Brigantine and 1 Cuirassiers
    SZ59 : 1 flag, 1 Cutter
    SZ54 : 1 flag, 1 Barque, 1 Corvette, 3 Cutters and 2 Frigates
    West Sahara : 1 flag
    Algeria : 1 flag
    SZ58 : 1 flag, 1 Battleship, 1 Brigantine, 2 Corvettes, 7 Cutters and 2 Frigates
    Andalusia : 1 flag, 2 Dragoonss, 3 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 5 Mariness
    Areg : 1 flag, 1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Mortars
    New Castille : 1 flag, 1 Capital, 1 Chasseurs, 2 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 20 Mortella_Towers

Production/PUs Summary :

France : 61 / 56
    UnitedKingdom : 42 / 40
    Spain : 47 / 37
    KingdomOfPrussia : 27 / 33
    Sweden : 26 / 29
    AustrianEmpire : 36 / 36
    OttomanEmpire : 32 / 34
    Russia : 50 / 50

@pug6000:

What shall I say … Lisboa was and is my intention. An encampment threatening the convoy zones in that area is a big problem. Spain really depends on that convoy zone.

Yeah, it’s really a pain in the ass having to move my fleet back to protect it.

@Veqryn:

i know pug knows this, but i hope u505 knows this.

that -10 national objective that is hitting spain every turn: it will happen no matter what

if spain loses that convoy, and loses the rest of spain, except her capital, spain will:

make 5 or slightly more each round
then lose 10

ends up with 0 (zero) income (cus you can’t go negative)

think of it like global 1940’s blockades if you want: an american fleet in sea zone 6 can kill all of japan’s “land income”
(this is just to help visualize it, they are different rules for different games)

Pug explained it but it still took a little while to wrap my head around it. Basically, controlling all of your convoy zones doesn’t necessarily mean you get all of your income. Some countries will always have an economic hit no matter what.

ya it is a bit confusing, and i am looking at ways of making it simpler for new users

basically, it was a balancing decision

i wanted there to be more territories and convoy income in the game

but i didn’t want spain to be making ~50 or 60 a round

so the solution was to keep the higher amount of income, but then use a negative objective to reduce certain nation’s income so that game would be balanced

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.7

Game History

Round :15

Combat Move - Sweden
            2 Artillerys, 8 Chasseurss, 1 Dragoons, 1 Fusiliers, 2 Grenadierss, 6 Mariness and 2 Mortarss moved from Jutland to Holstein
            1 Artillery moved from Skane to SZ11
            1 Artillery moved from SZ11 to Holstein
            1 Barque moved from SZ10 to SZ9
            4 Fusilierss and 4 Mariness moved from Ostra Gotaland to SZ9
            4 Barques, 1 Battleship, 2 Frigates, 4 Fusilierss and 4 Mariness moved from SZ9 to SZ10
            4 Fusilierss and 4 Mariness moved from SZ10 to Holstein

Purchase Units - Sweden
            Sweden buy 1 Chasseurs and 6 Fusilierss; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - Sweden
            Battle in Holstein
                Sweden attack with 3 Artillerys, 8 Chasseurss, 1 Dragoons, 5 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss, 10 Mariness and 2 Mortarss
                KingdomOfPrussia defend with 1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers
                    Sweden roll dice for 1 Battleship and 2 Frigates in Holstein, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 Artillery owned by the KingdomOfPrussia lost in Holstein
                    Sweden roll dice for 3 Artillerys, 8 Chasseurss, 1 Dragoons, 5 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss, 10 Mariness and 2 Mortarss in Holstein, round 1 :  11/0 hits
                    KingdomOfPrussia roll dice for 1 Fusiliers in Holstein, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 Artillery owned by the Sweden and 1 Fusiliers owned by the KingdomOfPrussia lost in Holstein
                Sweden win, taking Holstein from KingdomOfPrussia with 2 Artillerys, 8 Chasseurss, 1 Dragoons, 5 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss, 10 Mariness and 2 Mortarss remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for KingdomOfPrussia: 1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers
                Casualties for Sweden: 1 Artillery

Non Combat Move - Sweden
            1 Fusiliers moved from Svealand to Ostra Gotaland

Place Units - Sweden
            1 Chasseurs and 1 Fusiliers placed in Jutland
            5 Fusilierss placed in Svealand

Turn Complete - Sweden
            Sweden collect 23 PUs; end with 23 PUs total

Territory Summary for Sweden :

Norvege : 1 flag
    Bohus : 1 flag, 1 Fortress
    Svealand : 1 flag, 1 Capital, 5 Fusilierss and 1 Mortella_Tower
    Jutland : 1 flag, 1 Chasseurs, 2 Fortresss, 1 Fusiliers and 1 General
    SZ8 : 1 flag
    SZ3 : 1 flag, 3 Brigantines and 5 Cutters
    SZ10 : 1 flag, 4 Barques, 1 Battleship and 2 Frigates
    Holstein : 1 flag, 2 Artillerys, 8 Chasseurss, 1 Dragoons, 5 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss, 10 Mariness and 2 Mortarss
    SZ11 : 1 flag, 1 Barque
    SZ19 : 1 flag, 1 Cutter
    Ostra Gotaland : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers

Production/PUs Summary :

France : 61 / 56
    UnitedKingdom : 42 / 40
    Spain : 47 / 37
    KingdomOfPrussia : 30 / 31
    Sweden : 23 / 23
    AustrianEmpire : 36 / 36
    OttomanEmpire : 32 / 34
    Russia : 50 / 50

@pug6000:

It seems that concentration is lacking on both sides. 2 Big mistakes in a row.

First Prussia forgets to moves its Spanish forces.
Then Sweden forgets to move its smaller Baltic fleet.

Let’s see if I can at least fix a bit on Prussian side.

Ha. I didn’t even see that Russian naval purchase. I just assumed they were building more cavalry so I didn’t even bother looking at the turn summary. that was a huge mistake.

I’ll leave the decision up to you since I’ve already edited to fix my non-combat mistakes in the past.

Well, I’ll let the dice decide for us then.

1=Play on
2=restart the Prussian turn

Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (1)

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.7

Game History

Round :15

Combat Move - OttomanEmpire
            1 Fusiliers moved from Antioch to Syria
                  OttomanEmpire take Syria from Russia
            2 Chasseurss and 2 Fusilierss moved from Edessa to Syria
            1 Fusiliers moved from Constantinople to SZ92
            1 Marines moved from Kiutayeh to SZ92
            1 Howitzer moved from Lazes to Astrakahn
            1 Barque, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines moved from SZ92 to SZ97
            1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines moved from SZ97 to Astrakahn

Purchase Units - OttomanEmpire
            OttomanEmpire buy 2 Chasseurss and 6 Fusilierss; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - OttomanEmpire
            Battle in Astrakahn
                OttomanEmpire attack with 1 Fusiliers, 1 Howitzer and 1 Marines
                Russia defend with 1 Grenadiers and 1 Hussars
                    OttomanEmpire roll dice for 2 Frigates in Astrakahn, round 1 :  1/0 hits
                    1 Hussars owned by the Russia lost in Astrakahn
                    OttomanEmpire roll dice for 1 Fusiliers, 1 Howitzer and 1 Marines in Astrakahn, round 1 :  1/0 hits
                    Russia roll dice for 1 Grenadiers in Astrakahn, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 Howitzer owned by the OttomanEmpire and 1 Grenadiers owned by the Russia lost in Astrakahn
                OttomanEmpire win, taking Astrakahn from Russia with 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for OttomanEmpire: 1 Howitzer
                Casualties for Russia: 1 Grenadiers and 1 Hussars

Non Combat Move - OttomanEmpire
            1 Fusiliers moved from Sinop to Lazes
            2 Fusilierss moved from Constantinople to Kiutayeh
            2 Dragoonss, 6 Horse_Artillerys, 2 Hussarss and 2 Marshals moved from Tarsus to Edessa
            1 Horse_Artillery moved from Anatolia to Tarsus
            2 Dragoonss moved from Anatolia to Tarsus
            1 Hussars moved from Sinop to Tarsus
            1 Marshal moved from Constantinople to Karamania
            1 Barque, 1 Chasseurs and 1 Marines moved from SZ82 to SZ90
            1 Chasseurs moved from SZ90 to Sinai
            1 Brigantine moved from SZ74 to SZ80
            1 Marines moved from Thessaly to SZ80
            1 Brigantine and 1 Marines moved from SZ80 to SZ82

Place Units - OttomanEmpire
            1 Fusiliers placed in Candia
            2 Chasseurss and 1 Fusiliers placed in Anatolia
            4 Fusilierss placed in Constantinople

Turn Complete - OttomanEmpire
            OttomanEmpire collect 34 PUs; end with 34 PUs total

Territory Summary for OttomanEmpire :

Tarsus : 1 flag, 2 Dragoonss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Hussars
    Astrakahn : 1 flag, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines
    SZ82 : 1 flag, 1 Brigantine and 1 Marines
    SZ98 : 1 flag
    Armenia : 1 flag
    Lazes : 1 flag, 1 Artillery, 17 Chasseurss, 9 Fusilierss, 1 Howitzer, 1 Marines and 1 Mortars
    Georgia : 1 flag
    SZ97 : 1 flag, 3 Barques and 2 Frigates
    Constantinople : 1 flag, 1 Capital, 7 Fortresss, 4 Fusilierss and 25 Mortella_Towers
    SZ90 : 1 flag, 1 Barque and 1 Marines
    Sinai : 1 flag, 1 Chasseurs
    Edessa : 1 flag, 2 Dragoonss, 6 Horse_Artillerys, 2 Hussarss and 2 Marshals
    SZ73 : 1 flag
    Kiutayeh : 1 flag, 2 Fusilierss
    Syria : 1 flag, 2 Chasseurss and 3 Fusilierss
    Candia : 1 flag, 1 Encampment, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Mortella_Tower
    Karamania : 1 flag, 1 Marshal
    Anatolia : 1 flag, 2 Chasseurss, 1 Fusiliers, 1 General and 1 Mortella_Tower

Production/PUs Summary :

France : 59 / 56
    UnitedKingdom : 42 / 40
    Spain : 44 / 37
    KingdomOfPrussia : 30 / 31
    Sweden : 23 / 23
    AustrianEmpire : 42 / 42
    OttomanEmpire : 34 / 34
    Russia : 47 / 50

I actually used the wrong dice roller but I ended up rolling a 1 anyway.  :lol:

To be honest, I was curious to see how both ways would play out.