New rule proposal for China.

I like this idea.

I think Chinese units should be allowed to enter any territory bordering China. This allows them to interfere in Amur, FIC, or Korea etc. But not be able to stack in Moscow or India. Only as long as China and said ally are at war with Japan.

Ok,

So in a game that’s already TIGHTLY balanced, now you’re giving the chinese a free factory or two, the ability to replace their flying tigers, build tanks, mec, and maybe even SHIPS!?!?!

Unacceptable.

Half of the battle in China, is knowing you can STALL them, and don’t have to face a blitz.

No offense but why don’t you give the Americans an extra carrier? or Germany a factory in Romania?  Or the Italians 2 extra armor in Tobruk?  Your’re doing the same thing.

It’s different if -China- is allowed to SAVE it’s money, to build it’s own IC for $12 or $20. and it has to recover from there.

I wouldn’t add any additional units to the board. Tournament games or any game which something is on the line, I’m sticking with the official rules and set up for balance reasons.

But I think in a friendly game that you want to experiment in, letting China build things other than infantry and art would be fun. I would most likely only let them into bordering territories like WILD BILL and myself suggested.

OR even if you have an extra player who wants to play and is a complete noob let them be china without restrictions, and see how well your Japanese game handles it.

I usually play to have fun, have a few beers with friends, and smack talk. I paid for the game I can use it as I like. Who cares if I’m wrong or if it’s not how it’s supposed to be played.

Let China build AA guns, even with the Burma road closed.

I have advocated for similar things but I find it best to keep things simple.
I call it “The Fading Sun” and it works like this.

If China controls all of its home territories, Kwangtung is under allied control and the Burma road is open, for 1 full round of play, then China my place a minor IC in Kiangsu and function as any other country, with Shanghai acting as their capitol city. If this happens and Japan counter-attacks and retakes Shanghai, then China loses it economy like any other country but on the following turns functions like they normally do in the game.

Much simpler and much more balanced

I understand the problem and the need to fix it, however, I would caution giving China to much power. I like Glivin’s suggestion of border jumping, but I would word it like this.

1. If the Chinese control all of their original territories at the beginning of their turn, they may move *any unit/units into any **adjacent territory during the combat, and non-combat phases of that turn. Once the movement restriction has been lifted by moving at least one Chinese unit into an adjacent territory, the restriction no longer applies for the remainder of the game.

• The flying tiger squadron must always land on a Chinese original territory.
  ** Only friendly or hostile territories (not neutral) that are adjacent to Chinese original territories.

I find that this is all thats needed to prevent Japan from abandoning China for riches elsewhere.

I like Vance’s idea of the Chinese having AA Guns, however, China is already a meat grinder for Japan, and they need their air units to break through. Besides, allowing China to buy AA Guns doesn’t solve the problem of movement restrictions on them.

I don’t like the idea of allowing China the freedom to purchase any units with the help of a factory. I feel that it might be to much power for China, and it doesn’t solve the problem of movement restrictions on them.

I like the idea but I think the rule should be if China controls all there own territories at the start of there turn (KISS), they can buy a IC and move units outside there boards. If the IC is captured they surrender all there $$$ and go back under the old rules.

I think it’s very unA&A to have China under the rule they are now. Almost everyone was giving China stuff to fight with, and when in the history of the game did the Korean war happen? When does China loss it’s powerlessness and be able to invade North Korea?

@Young:

I don’t like the idea of allowing China the freedom to purchase any units with the help of a factory. I feel that it might be to much power for China, and it doesn’t solve the problem of movement restrictions on them.

I can understand the your reservations at the thought of China being able to move outside its borders and purchase units like a normal country, an over-powered China can stretch Japans ability to fight on other fronts to the breaking point. There is one major questions that I would like you to think about though, in all these scenarios that have been put forward China doesn’t get this ability unless certain conditions, and almost all of them require China to control all of its original territories, Kwangtung to be in allied hands, and the Burma road to be open, So how much of a game could possibly be left at this point? By the time these conditions are met, if they are met, I think the game would pretty much be all but over at that point right?

I can’t see the harm of giving China the ability to fight as a normal country once Japan has been effectively beaten back from the Asian mainland essentially losing the game. I begs the additional question of what’s the point in giving China this kind of ability when the game is all but over anyway, but I think that really only showcases just how harmless of a rule this would be.

There are sinerios where Japan focuses on Russia, Calcutta, and the $ islands while leaving China unchecked. Although it’s not a solid strategy, Japan can be very successful this way even if the chances of gaining the required VCs in the Pacific are close to impossible. I’ve seen games where 50 Chinese infantry are trapped with no where to go, but Japan has India and the middle east, while supporting Italy with ships in the Med. Even if the game is already over because China owns all it’s original territories, why give them the knockout punch?

I had a game like that once and what the Chinese did was stack a big bunch of infantry in Burma to block Japan from getting troops from its base in India to southeast Asia (there were American bases in Malaya and French Indochina if I recall correctly).  Anyway, like you said, it’s game over for Japan in the Pacific if you go that way, but Egypt is toast and that makes Italy is strong enough to defend Western Europe while Germany puts everything into Russia.

@knp7765:

In another game, the Japanese took Calcutta with only 1 tank and 1 artillery left with 20 Chinese sitting in Burma. That just doesn’t seem right to me.

Why are there Chinese infantry sitting in Burma, I thought that territory was off limits to Chinese units, unless you’re using a secondary house rule. Have I missed something in the Alpha +3 rules.

If you want to solve those problems, simply allow China to invade Korea, and change the restrictions of the flying tiger unit by allowing it to fly across borders, but it must always land on a Chinese owned territory. As for the UK units in India, they should be on their own in my opinion.

@knp7765:

In all the rules (OOB & Alpha) Burma and Kwangtung are the two exceptions to the Chinese border rule. Chinese forces can enter Burma and Kwangtung either to fight Axis forces and liberate those territories or as a NCM. The Flying Tiger fighter can also land in these areas.
Also, if India is captured by the Axis, China can gain the IPCs from Burma and Kwangtung if they take them from the Axis while India is Axis controlled.
As for India, don’t you think that China would want to liberate India if the Axis captured it? India is the leading edge of the Burma Road, China’s only supply line from the outside world. It seems to me that should be a particular exception.
Of course, you could make a further alteration. If China liberates India from Axis control, but there are still Axis warships in SZ 39, China still does not get the Burma Road NO until SZ 39 is also cleared of Axis presence.

Thanks for that, although it is clearly obvious in the rule book under China Rules (which I just read), our groups have not been using that advantage. I think I will surprise them with a Chinese liberation into Burma when I play the Allies this weekend.

@Young:

I’ve seen games where 50 Chinese infantry are trapped with no where to go, but Japan has India and the middle east, while supporting Italy with ships in the Med. Even if the game is already over because China owns all it’s original territories, why give them the knockout punch?

I think if anything that sounds like even more of a good reason to give the Chinese to the ability to start buying IC’s and other regular units. If Japan is going to deliberately ignore China because of arbitrary movement restrictions, then they should be made to pay for it just like any other faction in A&A would if they did that. The fact that Japan can abuse the Chinese movement restrictions to such stunning effect suggests to me that this needs to be in place just to keep them honest.

I see it as one of a few options Japan has to be a factor… remember that Japan is surrounded by 5 different enemies, if I can ignore one of them and get away with it, I would. That said, I still think that China should be able to attack Korea.

@Young:

I see it as one of a few options Japan has to be a factor… remember that Japan is surrounded by 5 different enemies, if I can ignore one of them and get away with it, I would. That said, I still think that China should be able to attack Korea.

Perhaps that would be enough to fix, what is to me anyway, a fairly glaring problem with game mechanics. Perhaps removing all Chinese movement restrictions once China has recaptured all its original territories would be better. It shouldn’t be that difficult for Japan to keep hold of a least a sliver of the Chinese territory it would need to to keep that from happening. While China can be quite potent in defense it’s offensive capabilities require it to have a superior numbers which (rather counter intuitively) is very difficult for them to achieve in early, and even mid, game turns. I think Japan is able to forestall this just by focusing even a small portion of their troops already in China from the games outset.

Japan is surrounded by 5 enemy nations, but it isn’t at war with all of them at once, and doesn’t have to go to war with one of them (the Soviets) at all if they so choose. Really when it comes down to it, Japan being able to ignore an enemy nation that begins the game at war with is wrong.