Italy

@Ichabod:

@PainState:

A lot of posters seemed stunned at this scenario, never scene it ever happen or even could happen. Now that I mulled it over last night and looked at the rules and so forth it is very obvious to me why no one has ever scene this scenario. Because the scenario makes no logical sense.

Italy DOW on Russia and moves in 2 tanks into Eastern Poland.
Russia is now at war with Italy and can DOW on Germany at the start of their next turn, turn 3.
Germany on Turn 3 does not DOW on Russia and just non combats into Eastern Poland.
Russia at the start of Turn 3 DOW on Germany and off we go.

There is no logical reason why Russia would not DOW on Germany at the start of Turn 3, none.

Heck you could argue that it makes no logical sense that Germany did not DOW on Russia at the start of G3 since Italy brought Russia into the war and Russia WILL DOW on Germany on R3.

Hi PainState,

From my perspective, if I was planning on doing a G3 Barbarossa AND I wanted to drive towards the south, then yes, it makes sense to not DOW. My stack will be together except for the minimum required mobile units and maybe 1 AAA in Poland so Russia doesn’t attack Poland to get their NO for occupying an Axis territory. But E. Poland will be real strong because the German air will be there and maybe bombers will also be in range of a raid on the Moscow factory. Also, 5 IPCs is more income than I’d probably get as Germany on the 1st turn.

There are a few disadvantages of course. 1, Russian blockers can’t be attacked. 2, the Scandinavian units are behind. But for me that’s ok, I just use them to lay siege anyways. I never expect to get Moscow on turn 6 anymore. I assume that the UK/Anzac and that lone French fighter are going to get to Moscow.Â

I say Germany always because Germany is your powerhouse as far as income, and the more income you can bring in for Germany the better chance you have of taking Russia since you can spend more, while I do like to bring an Italian Force into Russia this force is there to support the German force, take the first hits in counter attacks and keep my German units around much longer, Southern France also allows the Germans to build their own fleet to transport units to africa which can give you a big boost and can usually bring an Axis victory in the Med.

@creeping-deth87 Italy needs no help if played correctly.

“Never” is a strong word, and you even went so far as to hold down shift as you typed it and then went back to underline it afterwards.

If the airbase lets you hold Gibraltar for one extra turn, maybe even two, then is that 15 IPCs worth it for you?
Very possibly, sure. Delaying a US entry into the Med for one turn probably saves Italy at least 5 IPCs right off the bat, not to mention delaying its eventual economic implosion by an entire turn more of income.

Is it still worth it if the Americans can fly straight to Egypt or Norway from Gibraltar now?
Maybe they can’t do that yet, and won’t for another turn or two. Very possibly, yes, it’s still worth it. Maybe because you had that airbase, however, your Axis units were able to abandon Gibraltar and get into a better position on their way out. Lot’s of “if”'s. A lot of combinations of them add up to it being worth it.

Is it still worth it if the Americans can scramble planes off of it to defend their navy?
If you weren’t planning on attacking their navy (maybe because you simply don’t have the resources to do so), yes, absolutely, then there’s no difference at all.

So, yeah, sometimes it’s alright to give your opponent a facility if you got your money’s worth out of it first, even if it is only for a turn or two. Plenty of US and JP plays depend on building a naval base that’s only ever really used once in the game. There are some cases where the same is true for air bases all over the place.

FAQ (Bottom of page 2, top of 3) is pretty clear on this http://www.wizards.com/AvalonHill/rules/AAEurope1940_2ndEdition_FAQ.pdf

@Cow:

and let me guess axis won right? exactly italy makes 40 that is game.

Yep.  Italy really carried the game. They also got heavy bombers and they just started unloading on the UK London side. The UK spent most of the game fixing stuff that that Italy had bombed the turn before. Then they crossed over and did it to India and that allowed Japan an easy time taking it.

Which would’ve helped IRL…

Anyways, I’m going to try to do something different today: G1 Barbarossa. But still I’m taking Bul.

Why do you think it’s better in Germany?

Well the boost helps alot if you want to attack Russia on G2 (G3) while they are “weak”.
(Need to build an IC in Romania or upgrade the one in Germany)
Let Italy taking Paris means (for me) to delay moving Italian troops to the Balkans and Cairo.

I like to conquor Arfica, but the sooner this is done the sooner the Italian forces can help in Europe.

For me africa ends at cario, the simple goal is to hold it and prepare for the US fleet to come. The logistics and troops for invading terriotories south of sahra didn´t´t pay off in IPC or strategic value. Only endless coasts you cannot defend.

Sandbagging means not playing your best - purposely weighing yourself down.  If you want t keep Sea Lion an option, Japan shouldn’t declare war till turn four (maybe three).

Understand it, thx for clarification