Save Italy Strategy

@Vance:

G2 works well IMHO, but a popular approach is for Italy to walk into East Poland I2 and then Germans reinforce G3 without a DOW on USSR so they still get the wheat NO (and Russia is at war with Italy so no murmansk NO R3 if there is any axis sub in z125, even a German one!).

Russia would still get the 125 NO cause they are at war in the europe theatre, and they can counter attack the italians where ever they went if they dont delcare war on germany.

Nope.  If you do this, Germany will have a big stack of units in Italian East Poland by R3 that is too big for Russia to take it back.  Russia can declare war on Germany once Italy has declared war on Russia, but as of G3 they are not yet at war so Germany gets the wheat NO even with their troops in Italian East Poland.

The Russian Murmansk NO says:

When the Soviet Union Is at War in Europe:
5 IPCs if the convoy in sea zone 125 is free of Axis warships, Archangel is controlled by the Soviet Union, and there are no units belonging to other Allied powers present in any territories originally controlled by the Soviet Union.

And the German wheat NO says:

When Germany Is Not at War with the Soviet Union:
5 IPCs representing wheat and oil from the Soviet Union.

So if Russia is at war in Europe they don’t get the Murmansk NO if there is an axis warship in z125.  Germany on the other hand can collect the wheat NO as long as its not at war with Russia even if it has units in an Italian territory that was originally soviet.  Russia cannot simply refuse to declare war on Germany R3 just to get the Murmansk NO because a German sub in z125 is still an Axis sub.

If russia is at war with italy, then they are at war in europe, so they collect the NO, and if they dont declare on germany, russia can ignore the german stack and take back the territory the italians took.

Don’t think so.  If they are at war in Europe (with Italy or both), they could only collect the NO if there are no AXIS ships in z125, no matter if they are at war with Germany or not.  And they can’t attack East Poland to take it back from Italy if there are German units in East Poland unless they also declare war on Germany.  It would be another matter if it were a naval battle, but its a land battle with a multinational force defending so they can’t just fight the Italians and ignore the German units.  What if they won?  Then there would be a Russian territory with bunch of Germans on it and that just don’t compute.

This I2/G3 gimmick gives a huge advantage for the axis because they can get inside Russian territory, and get the $5, and deny Russia their $5, which is why it is such a popular way to launch Barbarossa

if there is an axis warship of course they wont collect, but they can ignore the germans easily.

Early on, Italy can spearhead for Germany.  Later, however, I feel the Germans need to take the lead - if only for the cash.  As Russia, I would not liberate any territory (except Stalingrad, Leningrad or Odessa - or Moscow of course, if it can be held) from Italy.  Any IPC Italy gets is one less Germany gets and I like to strangle the Germans. (Remember, Italians can be convoy raided, there just are not a lot of German convoys that can be sapped by submarines.)

The Soviets cannot clear 125 if Germany uses a sub there; USSR does not start with a destroyer – Germany can just submerge his sub and it’ll still be there when it’s time to check the NO. That’s why people say it’s so easy to deny that NO (coupled with Germany getting to keep theirs for one more turn while still advancing toward Moscow).

@Fortress:

The Soviets cannot clear 125 if Germany uses a sub there; USSR does not start with a destroyer – Germany can just submerge his sub and it’ll still be there when it’s time to check the NO. That’s why people say it’s so easy to deny that NO (coupled with Germany getting to keep theirs for one more turn while still advancing toward Moscow).

Precisely why England should be focused on destroyers, (well, that and the normal pacification of the Atlantic, of course!)

To come back in topic:

I think there’s no way to save Italy against a competent Allies player. If you find one that works, I’d be really happy to learn from it.

Have Germany take over London. With no money to spend in the Med, it becomes difficult to knock out Italy.

Solved.

:wink:

@Fortress:

Have Germany take over London. With no money to spend in the Med, it becomes difficult to knock out Italy.

Solved.

:wink:

In the meantime USA doesn’t do anything.

No, it’s not possible. A competent allied player won’t let you take London. And if you still pursue it, Russia will take care of the rest.

I jest, of course  :-D