Destroyer questions

The AA50 game we just finished the US bombed the hell out of Germany. We used the unit counter chips (red-5, gray-1) to show damage. It worded ok. Even if there is a mix-up and chips go flying (which happened) you tend to remember how many damage there was. What seems to get mixed up is how many tanks vs inf you had. Even if you had different colors to show damage (good idea), you might need two damage colors to show increments, other wise you could have towers in some cases. For at least 2-3 rounds Germany was damaged into double digits.

UK/ANZAC and Japanese air units may fly over each other’s territories (outside of China) when they’re not at war.  The rules at the top of page 8 that apply to neutral territories apply only to neutral territories, such as the Mongolian territories.  Neutral powers have different rules, as outlined in the political rules.

Technically, Japan, China and UK/ANZAC are not neutral anyway, as they are each at war with someone (Japan and China are at war with each other, and UK/ANZAC is at war with Germany).  Only the US is truly neutral, as it is at war with no one.  That’s why its rules are even more restrictive than other powers’ rules.  While the US remains at peace, its air units may not fly over other powers’ territories, and vice versa.

Whenever a carrier is attacked, its planes are assumed to be launched and defending in the air.  This is not optional.  If the carrier is hit, the planes can’t land on the carrier and must find another place to land within one space or be lost.

The only way that planes can be trapped on board a damaged carrier is if there are planes belonging to an ally on an attacking carrier.  Since it’s not their turn, the planes remain on the carrier as cargo rather than participate in the battle.  If the carrier is damaged during the attack, these “guest” planes will be trapped (unable to take off) until the carrier is repaired. If the carrier is attacked while still damaged, the planes will remain cargo.  They will be unable to launch and defend, and will be lost if the carrier is sunk.

You seem to have it all correct. Your planes can not hit the subs because you do not have a destroyer in the battle. Japan may not remove them as a casualty, if you hit with your planes.

The Japanese subs also don’t get to shoot, if all you have fighting in the naval portion of this attack are planes.

Thanks, that makes perfect sense.  The wording in the rulebook was confusing me :-D

@Krieghund:

Thanks for your feedback, guys.  This is what we’re currently considering:
Q.  Submarines can attack transports that move through their sea zone “unaccompanied by surface warships”.  Under exactly what conditions may subs attack moving transports?
A.  If at any time during a transport’s movement it finds itself in a sea zone with a submarine belonging to a power with which it is at war and there is no friendly surface warship in the sea zone belonging to a power that is at war with the enemy power, it may be fired upon.

Portions of this were copied from the FAQ response to escorted transports, but I haven’t seen a ruling on it.
Perhaps I’m not clear on movement phases for different units.  Prior to the escort rules for transports nothing actually affected gameplay in the middle of a move.  You could move some, move others, still move more, and it didn’t matter how or in what order as long as it was legal at the end of the move and start of the next phase.  However, with the new rules for unescorted transports, the timing of movement is a rather big deal and can dilute the strategic value of the subs (and the escort rule).  Basically, there are three scenarios that I see:

A)  Units always begin moving at the same time whether moving one space, two, four, etc.  So nothing can “wait” for another unit to catch up and every piece moves individually, even if it’s only moving one space and something else is moving two spaces to arrive at the same territory/seazone.  If this is the case, transports 1 or 2 spaces ahead of warships moving to a enemy subs’ seazone will be fired on if they move into that seazone as the warships haven’t arrived yet.  This seems to me to be the strictest interpretation of simultaneous movement.  It also means you can’t leapfrog a transport through an enemy sub seazone, by which I mean moving a warship its two spaces into a seazone that has an enemy sub, and then moving the transport from a completely different seazone through to the sub/warship seazone and beyond.  Instead, the transport and warship would both move their first space, the sub would take its free shot, the transport (if still alive) would then move and the warship would arrive in the subs seazone.  This follows precedent for the carrier/plane movement, but gives the sub the most opportunities for a hit.

B)  “Faster” units and those moving a greater distance move first.  For example, a fighter, a destroyer and a transport are all moving to this seazone.  The fighter is moving 3 spaces, the destroyer 2 spaces, and the transport 1 space.  The fighter make its first move, the detroyer and fighter then move together, arriving at the transport’s seazone where all three move together to the final seazone, where the lurking sub is.  In this manner you CAN wait, providing you’re moving a shorter distance.  It still complies with everything moving at the same time and you still can’t leapfrog a transport.  It also complies with carrier/plane movement, and gives the sub an advantage only against leapfrogging as ships within a space of the subs seazone, but not in the transports seazone can provide the escort (according to the new errata) with their first move, meeting the transport.

C)  There is no Spoon:  Movement isn’t actually instantaneous and you can all speedy-like move a warship in to cover the transport that will pass through.  In this case, you can choose to leapfrog units and in which order you move your units, moving a warship its two spaces into a seazone that has an enemy sub, and then moving the transport safely through.  This currently complies with how the errata is worded on escorts because I don’t recall any rules as movement as occurring on a space by space basis.  Previous rules specifically address movement as occurring at the same time only in the sense that it’s in the same phase (you can’t move, conduct combat, move with the same unit other than planes) but the escort rule actually comes into effect in the middle of the move, in the cases where you pass through the subs seazone.  This style of movement is the least in keeping with the already established carrier rules, however, as planes are supposed to move individually and at the same time as the carriers.  Maybe this is a simpler rule, but more of an exploit of the phase and I’d rather the sub be able to strategically threaten routes rather than seeing combat moves within combat move.

So which is it?  For what it’s worth (not much) I prefer B with the new errata ruling, although I still think the previous rule of a warship needing to shadow the entire movement, or already being on station in the subs seazone and not moving out of it was equally in keeping with the idea of a escort convoy.  Seazones are big, the warship should really be with it the whole time.

@fanofbond:

Can a jap transport move through an allied controlled seazone?
While i’m on the subject of questions can us planes land in either Anzac or uk  territories before the dow.

If Japan is at war with any of the allies in the sea zone, and there’s a ship that you can’t ignore, then the answer is no.

If Japan is not at war with any of the allies in the sea zone, but will be by the end of Japan’s turn, and there’s a ship that you can’t ignore, then the answer is no.

Japan can move past allies it is not at war with, to attack allies it is at war with, provided none of Japan’s moves will result in war with the moved through power.

The answer to your second question is no. US planes can only land in US territories or on US Carriers, when it is not at war.

@Gravy:

Okay, don’t have the rules in front of me so I  have another question.  US attacks a Jap  fleet with only subs.  Since the Jap fleet has a destroyer and the US doesn’t, do the Japanese subs in her fleet get a first strike attack and at what die roll. Totally confused with this rule.

My reading of the rules is that yes, the Japanese subs get first strike as the US doesn’t not have ASW provided by a destroyer.  Subs roll at a 1 for defense.  Roll for your sub stack, US removes hits (rolls of 1) from the board immediately.  Then US can roll for his remaining subs at 2 (for attack).