I’ve been researching France in World War 2 recently, and I stumbled upon this article on JSTOR:
Unfortunately, my regular free JSTOR account cannot access this.
Please let me know if you have access to this article in any way. Thank you!
Leaving the forum
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I do object, strongly, to the notion that it would never be appropriate to create a thread about, or discuss (for example) the Anglo-American food blockade of Germany during WWII, the effect that blockade had on Germany’s food situation, or whether Germany was able to feed all the people within its borders. Banning the discussion of certain ideas, or certain parts of history, because they are too “sensitive,” represents censorship of ideas. Politically correct censorship of ideas is not cool, and is not even remotely appropriate for a forum about WWII history.
The problem with this AGAIN is that not one of these posts was “censored” ….not edited or removed. They are all in those closed off topic threads for anybody to read. Also, we do have a restriction to topics of History that have relevance to Axis and Allies, which is what this site is about. I suppose you can have a Eugenics thread, but you probably would not get any reply’s
Politics threads and posts are restricted and have been for years…this is the rule from Djensen, not me. So in terms of censorship, the only topic in this category is from the boss.Essentially, we don’t allow discussions of ‘superior races’ or what not because this always leads to flame wars. In the History section please just stick to Battles, Equipment, Leaders, etc. because that has some relevance to Axis and Allies.
Kurt you never suffered from anything except he was in 5 closed threads due to going off topic. I wish you would move on because with respect to you, the only issue is “going off topic”
Most people can readily see if they bothered to look at those threads what actually happened. So it is really a non issue.
Oh and BTW Gargantua’s claim that his post was deleted was actually moved to Moderation since it was a bait and those are not allowed. Perhaps read and obay your own moniker: " don’t pick fights"
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Oh and BTW Gargantua’s claim that his post was deleted was actually moved to Moderation since it was a bait and those are not allowed. Perhaps read and obay your own moniker: " don’t pick fights"
That’s BAIT.
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Your avatar, your aforementioned post or your last post?
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The site founder gave me my avatar against the summation of my will and wishes, are you implying he baited you?
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No rather by adopting it ( as opposed to what you had before the ‘bait avatar’ , AKA “Resist” Avatar before) would have been more suited to a regular poster. Obviously, something troubles you.
But alas it is just like posting off topic commentary which you started as well or so it seems.
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The quality of Wikipedia articles varies, depending on the sources cited. Some Wikipedia articles are reliable, others less so.
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I’m American, not German. I have little if any German blood. My screen name was chosen to honor a man who was arguably the finest mathematician ever to have lived. I am not a mathematician. Even if I were to become one, my mathematical work would not be remotely comparable to Kurt Goedel’s.
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“Super race” is not an accurate two-word summary of the post in question. That post contains the following words: “Normally researchers who have announced that one race is superior began with specific conclusion in mind, and attempt to find ways to justify that conclusion. . . . This is pseudoscience.”
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That post also contained the words, “The word eugenics can also be used to describe the concept of applying the principles of genetic science to human beings, in an effort to change the gene pool in some specific way. This is not pseudoscience, any more than selectively breeding better crops, faster horses, or specific breeds of dogs is pseudoscience.” It is not a violation of the terms of service to point out that the laws of science and the principles of genetics apply to human beings every bit as much as they apply to plants and animals. If any moderator has “banned others for far less,” that represents an inappropriate use of moderator power. (Not to mention the censorship of ideas which prompted me to want to leave in the first place.)
A) It matters not if the President of the United States writes a wikipedia article about himself, it’s still an unreliable source. I’ve had that argument before, trust me, if the Arkhangel Michael came down and personally wrote an article in Wikipedia, it would not be taken as reliable.
B) The term “Super Race” is what I was addressing. Using it in any way other than in a negative connotation is going to get you attacked by Jews, Africans, etc. Sorry, but that’s the way it is. Why not use the term genetically appealing instead, it’s not got the same connotation, but it still conveys the message.
C) Eugenics too has a negative connotation - luckily the public screw-you-lls are screwing up America’s youth to the point that most people dont know what it means, but it’s still something to watch for.
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The site founder gave me my avatar against the summation of my will and wishes, are you implying he baited you?
DJ always did have creative solutions. Maybe you should heed his warning?
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Whats the topic of this thread again….oh yea, see ya Kurt, and have fun
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He is staying. Welcome back Kurt!
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well, at least he (Kurt) cutted his posts down to a third of it… 8-)
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I really have no words for this, Kurt how many times have I pointed this out to you and begged you to stop? Falling on your sword before one of the mods removed you may seem more noble but the end result is the same. The forum will be a lesser place because of this.
While someone leaving is always a lousy thing to see happen, what is more disgusting is watching people gloat over it, that is the real tragedy of this.
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Wait. Nobody “removed him” and he is staying anyway
We didn’t do anything except close off topic threads. No edits, not removals, no censorship. Nothing.
In the past edits/removal were only to remove flames, troll posts, F words, etc.
Usually that focused just on one person :-D
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In the past edits/removal were only to remove flames, troll posts, F words, etc.
Right, except or my posts on a regular basis, which violate none of those stipulations above.
Probably including this post shortly, which highlights you’re over zealous moderation.
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Right, except or my posts on a regular basis, which violate none of those stipulations above.
LOL. Now that is really funny!
You are too kind sir!
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@Imperious:
Right, except or my posts on a regular basis, which violate none of those stipulations above.
LOL. Now that is really funny!
You are too kind sir!
Hence why it’s best just to delete the entire post.
Think of it as Character Insurance. You say something completely out of character - sounding more like a petulant 9 year old boy who doesn’t want to eat his peas - instead of your normal, well thought out, dissertation. IL, DM, Myself, someone else with authority sees it, and we just remove it. Bam. Damage mitigated - flame war (hopefully) averted. This is commonly referred too as our JOBS. :-o
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I really have no words for this, Kurt how many times have I pointed this out to you and begged you to stop? Falling on your sword before one of the mods removed you may seem more noble but the end result is the same. The forum will be a lesser place because of this.
While someone leaving is always a lousy thing to see happen, what is more disgusting is watching people gloat over it, that is the real tragedy of this.
Thanks for writing this. I put a lot of thought and effort into my longer posts, and it’s nice to know people like you appreciate them.
I would also like to address two incorrect statements Imperious Leader has made. The first is his implication that the only real issue is his decision to close threads which have gone off topic. That has nothing to do with why I’m leaving, as I’ve repeatedly explained. (And he has repeatedly ignored.)
His second incorrect statement is the claim that I’m staying. I have not sent him any PMs since I began this thread. He has no inside knowledge about whether I’m staying or going. Other than participating in djensen’s thread about how list moderation rules might be changed, I’m adhering to the limits I’d set for myself in my OP. This means I’m removing myself from regular discussions until it is made clear that list moderators are no longer allowed to censor ideas.
In the extremely unlikely event I significantly change my position, I will communicate that to the forum directly. I will not use Imperious Leader, or any other third person, as a go-between. If anyone seems to be making statements on my behalf, those statements should be ignored.
I’d like to make one final statement about Clyde’s post. I realize that if I leave voluntarily, the effect will be the same as if I’m banned for having expressed non-mainstream ideas. However, there are only so many hours in a day. How many of those hours should I invest into a forum in which moderators exert pressure to discourage or prevent people from expressing non-conformist ideas?
I have been a participant on discussion lists in which people are allowed to express any idea at all, as long as they are civil. That model works extremely well, especially if the moderators nip violations of civility standards in the bud. (It’s also important that the mods be neutral; rather than applying one standard of civility to someone they like, and a different standard to someone they dislike.) I’d much rather invest my time in a forum like that than one in which the mods believe it’s their right–even their responsibility!–to censor anything “politically sensitive.”
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How many of those hours should I invest into a forum in which moderators exert pressure to discourage or prevent people from expressing non-conformist ideas?
Invest the same hours as you did before since nobody ONCE changed any post you ever made in any manner, but did close 5 threads because the ended up in flame wars or totally off topic commentary. If by closing threads like “making a chocolate shake” ended up into “Stalin shipped 50,452 into forced labor camps and selected a number of these for eugenics tests to determine who was superior” you get and deserve a closed thread.
Not because we don’t like the topic, but because it freaking don’t belong with ‘chocolate’ threads.
Funny how you never once have any proof about where you got a post changed or altered, since a claim of censorship might have currency but you don’t even have a starting point to even discuss that.
And you were already told that politics are not allowed here by the owner of the site. Also, he said all topics should have some relevance to the game in some manner because really this is an Axis and Allies site and not Republican vs. Democrat or Holocaust talk.
Bring your “non- conformist” ideas to the table as long as its about the GAME, or History with a direct relation to the same ( battles, equipment, leaders, campaigns).
I’ve repeatedly explained. (And he has repeatedly ignored.)
But you have to have evidence of how your posts were censored. If you don’t have edited posts or removed posts you got nothing to complain. Its’ pretty basic right?
SHOW WHERE YOU WROTE SOMETHING THAT SOMEBODY REMOVED OR EDITED. CAN YOU DO THAT KURT?
Otherwise, anybody who never posted can cry “censorship” and leave.
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SHOW WHERE YOU WROTE SOMETHING THAT SOMEBODY REMOVED
How’s he’s supposed to show it, when it’s removed?
DUH
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Thats easy.
Look for continuity in those threads. His posts are always reposted in rebuttals by other forum members. Also, look at Kurt’s posts themselves. If somebody removed the ones about race, eugenics, Nazi transport stats, etc….then how come those 5 threads are full of that commentary?
Second, look for something like this: � Last Edit: Today at 08:59:35 am by Imperious Leader �
Talk about grasping for straws… geez
DUH
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@Imperious:
How many of those hours should I invest into a forum in which moderators exert pressure to discourage or prevent people from expressing non-conformist ideas?
Invest the same hours as you did before since nobody ONCE changed any post you ever made in any manner, but did close 5 threads because the ended up in flame wars or totally off topic commentary. If by closing threads like “making a chocolate shake” ended up into “Stalin shipped 50,452 into forced labor camps and selected a number of these for eugenics tests to determine who was superior” you get and deserve a closed thread.
Not because we don’t like the topic, but because it freaking don’t belong with ‘chocolate’ threads.
Funny how you never once have any proof about where you got a post changed or altered, since a claim of censorship might have currency but you don’t even have a starting point to even discuss that.
And you were already told that politics are not allowed here by the owner of the site. Also, he said all topics should have some relevance to the game in some manner because really this is an Axis and Allies site and not Republican vs. Democrat or Holocaust talk.
Bring your “non- conformist” ideas to the table as long as its about the GAME, or History with a direct relation to the same ( battles, equipment, leaders, campaigns).
I’ve repeatedly explained. (And he has repeatedly ignored.)
But you have to have evidence of how your posts were censored. If you don’t have edited posts or removed posts you got nothing to complain. Its’ pretty basic right?
SHOW WHERE YOU WROTE SOMETHING THAT SOMEBODY REMOVED OR EDITED. CAN YOU DO THAT KURT?
Otherwise, anybody who never posted can cry “censorship” and leave.
You are refuting straw men. I have not claimed that any of my posts have been edited or deleted. I have expressed acceptance of the idea of keeping threads on-topic. What I am not okay with, and do not accept, is the idea that there are certain pieces of history which must not be discussed because they are too “sensitive.” A policy such as that is not appropriate for a WWII history forum. It represents censorship of ideas and of history.
Please confine your future remarks to the things I’ve actually stated, without wandering off down rabbit trails completely unrelated to my one area of concern.
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