XPAD-01 Bunnies P Wrath + Vold (Axis) vs JeffM + RGP44 (Allies)

there doesn’t have to be combat in the sea zone, an amphibious landing can be scrambled against unless they have changed that rule in the last month, see:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=26858.0

It flagged my last post as spam for linking to a posting from this very site!  Anyway, if you search “scramble” on the site you’ll see a discussion about the Novgorod sea zone that covers this topic.  Planes can scramble against an amphibious invasion even if there are no ships in the sz, if it did not offer you the scramble option then this is a glitch we should report to whoever is editing the game

Here’s the relevant excerpt from the rules:

They can also be scrambled to resist
amphibious assaults from adjacent sea
zones, whether or not the territory being
assaulted is the territory containing the air
base. They may defend against the enemy
ships conducting the amphibious assault
even if friendly ships are not present.

I can see how it could be interpreted this way, but I need to wrap my head around how an airbase in Morocco can scramble on a landing in Gib on a sea zone that is already controlled by Axis.  I can see it happening for a neighboring territory, one across the water doesn’t make much sense to me, especially when I had control of the zone.

In that same vein, I should have been entitled to a scramble in sz112 had I had a plane in W.Ger capable of doing so (I may have, I don’t have my map atm), yes?

But, rules are rules regardless of if they are coded into TripleA or if I agree with the interpretation :)

In any event, I would like for Garg to weigh in with a verdict before rolling it back.  Not to be petty or because it will make any big difference in the outcome, but so we have a definitive rule clarification going forward for this and future games in the tourney - and it’ll get some more visibility to get it coded into the next TripleA/map version.

We’re all learning here :)

V

On the US to Norway move you only had 2 HBs in WG, there were no fighters or tac bombers to scramble, go ahead and run it by Garg but i’ve seen him state this rule on the boards as well so i know he is going to confirm the scramble order.

i ran through the turn and TripleA does not query for scramble orders in this instance, bug that needs to be fixed

now that I can see my map you are right on W.Ger - I suspected as much because I had staged my fighters out of Paris.  However, now I know for next time.

How can a scramble be initiated in TripleA?  It’s not letting me add land units (apparently it classifies fighters as land units) to water.

Not sure how to do that, but if you see the dice i just rolled we can use that and just run the combat “manually” and then edit the results.  You just roll your 3 dice in order DD, Ftg, Ftg; i’ll take casualties, then i’ll roll my three dice all fighters so no order necessary and you’ll take your casualties and so on.  You just need to be in some version of our game, doesn’t need to be the current one and use the “roll dice” option under the “game” menu.  Remember you are attacking so the carrier doesn’t get a roll and your fighters are at 3 and ours are at 4.  If you would rather withdraw the attack because you didn’t know about the scramble feel free to re-do the Italian turn since there was no other combat.

rgp44

Sounds like a plan.  I’m going to do the same move with one adjustment in light of the rule clarification, not your scramble - I’ll bring the bomber along instead of sending it to 112.

Rolls will be in order of 1b(4), 2f(3), 1d(2) (sub and cv are not combatants in the fight).

I’ll let you roll for the scrambled planes

V

1,6,3,2 - 3 hits.

wow, back up if you’re bringing the bomber we don’t want to scramble because then its 12-12 and you have 6 hits and we have 3.

whoa that should read, if you’re doing that you need to run the turn without the scramble.

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Alpha 3, version: 2.8

Game History

Round :8

Purchase Units - Italians
            Italians buy 1 infantry and 2 submarines; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Italians
            Giving bonus movement to units
            2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Southern Italy to 95 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to 92 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries, 1 carrier, 1 fighter, 2 infantry, 1 submarine and 2 transports moved from 95 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from 92 Sea Zone to Gibraltar
                  Italians take Gibraltar from British

Combat - Italians
            Recording Battle Statistics

Non Combat Move - Italians

Place Units - Italians
            1 infantry placed in Southern Italy
            2 submarines placed in 95 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Italians
            Italians collect 9 PUs; end with 9 PUs total
            Objective Italians 2 Roman Empire: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 14 PUs
            Objective Italians 1 Control The Mediterranean: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 19 PUs

Territory Summary for Italians :

Gibraltar : 1 flag, 2 artilleries, 1 harbour and 2 infantry
    Tobruk : 1 artillery
    Northern Italy : 2 aaGuns, 1 factory_major and 1 infantry
    Southern Italy : 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 bomber, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
    95 Sea Zone : 2 submarines
    92 Sea Zone : 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 2 transports

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 43 / 51
    Russians : 31 / 34
    Japanese : 43 / 46
    Americans : 62 / 80
    Chinese : 5 / 4
    British : 33 / 57
    UK_Pacific : 17 / 14
    Italians : 9 / 19
    ANZAC : 17 / 23
    French : 5 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

OK, I should have ran that change past you.  done again without the scramble and sz112 combat

RGP/ Vold,

I agree with RGP that if the bomber is brought into the mix that the odds are heavily against scrambling.

The problem, is that when Vold did his initial attack, he did not know that the fighters could scramble from Morocco, and did not bring the bomber (no reason to).  In that situation, it would have been advantageous for us to send the fighters into the sea zone.

Now that we have the rule clarification, and Vold knows that the fighters can scramble, it makes sense for him to bring the bomber.  In this situation, it does not make sense for us to scramble.

Given that Vold has the option of bringing the bomber, lets just stick with the results from Italy’s initial turn (Vold invades Gibraltar, no scramble).  Is that good with everyone?

Jeff

The difference is that the attacker must make all moves first and scramble decision  comes after, it forces the attacker to deploy forces against a possible scramble even if there isn’t one thereby preventing them from attacking elsewhere on the same turn.  In the original move the bomber was used to sink the US transports off Norway, so it is incorrect for the bomber to be able to deter our scramble and sink the transports.  Haven’t looked yet but i believe this was not done in the revised turn which would be correct

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Alpha 3, version: 2.8

Game History

Round :8

Purchase Units - ANZAC
            ANZAC buy 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - ANZAC
            Giving bonus movement to units
            1 infantry moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 54 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Malaya
                  UK_Pacific take Malaya from Japanese
            1 destroyer moved from 54 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from 54 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Queensland to 42 Sea Zone

Combat - ANZAC
            Battle in 42 Sea Zone
                ANZAC attack with 1 destroyer and 3 fighters
                Japanese defend with 1 submarine
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 42 Sea Zone, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    ANZAC roll dice for 1 destroyer and 3 fighters in 42 Sea Zone, round 1 :  3/4 hits
                    1 submarine owned by the Japanese lost in 42 Sea Zone
                ANZAC win, taking 42 Sea Zone from Japanese with 1 destroyer and 3 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 submarine
                ANZAC win with 1 destroyer and 3 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 submarine
            Recording Battle Statistics

Non Combat Move - ANZAC
            1 carrier and 1 fighter moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            3 fighters moved from 42 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone

Place Units - ANZAC
            1 factory_minor placed in Queensland
            1 transport placed in 62 Sea Zone
            1 artillery placed in New South Wales

Turn Complete - ANZAC
            ANZAC collect 17 PUs; end with 17 PUs total
            Trigger ANZAC 1 Control Original And Malaya: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 22 PUs
            Objective ANZAC 2 Control Strategic Islands: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 27 PUs

Territory Summary for ANZAC :

Malaya : 1 infantry
    Queensland : 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 2 infantry
    New Zealand : 1 airfield and 1 harbour
    New South Wales : 1 aaGun, 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 2 infantry
    New Guinea : 1 infantry
    Celebes : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Java : 1 flag, 1 artillery
    Dutch New Guinea : 1 flag,

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Alpha 3, version: 2.8

Game History

Round :8

Combat Move - French
            Giving bonus movement to units

Non Combat Move - French

Turn Complete - French

Territory Summary for French :

United Kingdom : 2 infantry
    81 Sea Zone : 1 destroyer
    91 Sea Zone : 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 43 / 51
    Russians : 31 / 34
    Japanese : 40 / 46
    Americans : 62 / 80
    Chinese : 5 / 4
    British : 33 / 57
    UK_Pacific : 20 / 14
    Italians : 9 / 19
    ANZAC : 17 / 27
    French : 5 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

that is correct, the bomber did not take sz112 as it did in the original iteration.

here’s Ger’s turn, I hit ‘done’ instead of ‘post’

Ger 9.tsvg

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Alpha 3, version: 2.8

Game History

Round :9

Politics - Russians
            Game Loaded
                Japanese are now being played by: Human
                Germans are now being played by: Human
                French is now being played by: Human
                British are now being played by: Human
                Chinese are now being played by: Human
                Dutch is now being played by: Human
                Neutral_Axis are now being played by: Human
                Neutral_Allies are now being played by: Human
                ANZAC is now being played by: Human
                Russians are now being played by: Human
                UK_Pacific is now being played by: Human
                Mongolians are now being played by: Human
                Italians are now being played by: Human
                Neutral_True is now being played by: Human
                Americans are now being played by: Human

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 1 armour, 4 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            Giving bonus movement to units
            1 infantry moved from Karelia to Finland
                  Russians take Finland from Germans
            1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Poland
            1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Poland
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to Poland
            1 fighter moved from Novgorod to Poland
            1 armour moved from Eastern Poland to Yugoslavia
                  Russians take Romania from Germans
                  Russians take Yugoslavia from Germans
            1 armour moved from Eastern Poland to Bulgaria
                  Russians take Bulgaria from Germans
            1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Romania
            1 mech_infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Egypt
            2 infantry moved from Volgograd to Kazakhstan
            1 armour moved from Volgograd to Novosibirsk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Volgograd to Novosibirsk
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Novosibirsk
            2 fighters moved from Russia to Kazakhstan
            1 infantry moved from Buryatia to Sakha
                  Russians take Sakha from Japanese
            7 infantry moved from Buryatia to Ulaanbaatar
            1 mech_infantry moved from Novgorod to Eastern Poland
            1 artillery moved from Belarus to Eastern Poland
            9 infantry moved from Belarus to Eastern Poland
            1 mech_infantry moved from Belarus to Eastern Poland
            4 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland
            2 artilleries moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland
            1 infantry moved from Ukraine to Bessarabia
            1 mech_infantry moved from Ukraine to Eastern Poland
            1 mech_infantry moved from Russia to Belarus
            3 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus
            3 infantry moved from Karelia to Novgorod

Combat - Russians
            Russians creates battle in territory 125 Sea Zone
            Battle in Poland
                Russians attack with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                    Russians roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Poland, round 1 :  2/4 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Poland, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Poland
                Russians win, taking Poland from Germans with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Russians win with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Battle in Kazakhstan
                Russians attack with 2 fighters and 2 infantry
                Japanese defend with 1 armour
                    Russians roll dice for 2 fighters and 2 infantry in Kazakhstan, round 1 :  1/4 hits
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 armour in Kazakhstan, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 armour owned by the Japanese lost in Kazakhstan
                Russians win, taking Kazakhstan from Japanese with 2 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 armour
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
                Russians win with 2 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 armour
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Novosibirsk
                Russians attack with 1 armour, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Japanese defend with 1 armour
                    Russians roll dice for 1 armour, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Novosibirsk, round 1 :  1/3 hits
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 armour in Novosibirsk, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 armour owned by the Japanese and 1 mech_infantry owned by the Russians lost in Novosibirsk
                Russians win, taking Novosibirsk from Japanese with 1 armour and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 armour
                Casualties for Russians: 1 mech_infantry
                Russians win with 1 armour and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 armour
                Casualties for Russians: 1 mech_infantry
            Recording Battle Statistics

Non Combat Move - Russians
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Novosibirsk to Russia
            2 fighters moved from Kazakhstan to Russia
            1 mech_infantry moved from Volgograd to Novosibirsk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Volgograd to Ukraine
            2 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
            1 artillery moved from Russia to Bryansk
            1 aaGun moved from Belarus to Novgorod
            1 fighter moved from Poland to Novgorod
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to Novgorod
            1 aaGun moved from Buryatia to Ulaanbaatar

Place Units - Russians
            1 armour and 2 infantry placed in Volgograd
            2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in Novgorod
            2 mech_infantrys placed in Russia
            1 mech_infantry placed in Ukraine

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 44 PUs; end with 44 PUs total
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 12 PUs; end with 56 PUs

Territory Summary for Russians :

Sakha : 1 infantry
    Yenisey : 1 infantry
    Kazakhstan : 1 infantry
    Olgiy : 1 flag,    Dzavhan : 1 flag,    Ulaanbaatar : 1 flag, 1 aaGun and 7 infantry
    Tsagaan Olom : 1 flag,    Egypt : 1 mech_infantry
    Romania : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Poland : 1 flag, 2 infantry
    Belarus : 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
    Bryansk : 1 artillery and 2 infantry
    Eastern Poland : 2 armour, 15 artilleries, 13 infantry and 9 mech_infantrys
    Bessarabia : 1 infantry
    Russia : 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 factory_major, 2 fighters, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
    Ukraine : 1 factory_minor and 2 mech_infantrys
    Novosibirsk : 1 armour and 1 mech_infantry
    Volgograd : 1 armour, 1 factory_minor and 2 infantry
    Novgorod : 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 factory_minor, 1 fighter, 1 harbour, 5 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber