XPAD-01 Dairy Qyrn (AXIS) vs Team MountainHIGH

@Cow:

I need to see an official ruling that states otherwise.

Go to that thread again, I found a ruling from kreig himself. I’ll do the allies later, I spent time hunting corroboration in the FAQ since you were throwing a hissy fit and I didn’t want to proceed until all parties were satisfied with the rulings. Let me know if you’re ready to accept that you didn’t understand the rules and have been playing your ‘thousands’ of games on a flawed understanding of this rule.

to be fair to cow, i don’t think you could build naval units in a hostile sea zone in classic and revised….

@Veqryn:

to be fair to cow, i don’t think you could build naval units in a hostile sea zone in classic and revised….

Right, I address that in the other thread.

We’re cool Cow, no worries. The exception can be found on page 3 just above the map section. I don’t know if there’s an Europe 1940 errata, but a quick search found no such thing. I’m hoping they include Global errata once the new editions come out.
http://www.wizards.com/\AvalonHill\rules\AA Pacific 1940 FAQ_VER1.pdf

I still want kreig to explain this, because I am remaining in the sea zone and conducting combat… the finished product does not say I cannot load my transports. It would take an intepretation of the rules to say otherwise and why would someone intepret the rules that way?

It is in the rules though.

At the beginning of the Combat Move phase, you may
already have sea units in spaces containing enemy units that
were there at the start of your turn. For example, an enemy
may have built new sea units in a sea zone where you have
surface warships. When your turn comes around again, you
are sharing that sea zone with enemy forces.
If you are sharing a sea zone with enemy surface warships
(not submarines and/or transports), this situation requires
you to do one of the following:
� Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat,
� Leave the sea zone, load units if desired, and conduct
combat elsewhere,
� Leave the sea zone, load units, and return to the same sea
zone to conduct combat (you cannot load units while in a
hostile sea zone), or
� Leave the sea zone and conduct no combat.
Once these sea units have moved and/or participated in
combat, they cannot move or participate in the Noncombat
Move phase of the turn.

The wording for this isn’t ‘you may’ or ‘you could’ . . . it’s “this situation requires you to do one of the following.” Nowhere in there does it list loading troops in a contested seazone as an option. Also, just because it doesn’t explicitly state that you can’t load troops in this situation doesn’t mean that it’s an allowed move. I could just say that US gets 50 ipcs extra every 10th turn and then point to the rules saying where does it say that I can’t get it. Obviously that’s a pretty extreme situation and no I’m not asking for another 50 (I’ll take it though if Germany/Japan wants to make a donation). But me dropping a DD into sz113 will create a situation covered by the rules above and on Germany’s turn, you will have to take one of the actions above.

It wasn’t possible to build into a hostile seazone in AAR and Classic. So this situation never came up in those iterations. I haven’t played classic in some time so my memory could be off. But say a transport was in sz A and some infantry were in a terr adjacent to sz B. I’m pretty sure that an enemy ship/fleet would prevent the first player from loading those troops in combat. I never played aa50, so I wouldn’t know about that game.

From what I’m reading; I’m pretty sure your transports could leave the seazone, pick up the troops in Germany, and then offload all dudes into Norway. Isn’t it in the rules that you’re not supposed to load transports in a combat phase unless those troops will be used in that phase? Seems silly to state that you can pick up dudes and return to conduct combat if you can’t offload said troops.

After reviewing the play, the ruling on the field stands.

You cannot load in a hostile Sea Zone - Even if you started there.

Ok, Page 16 in the Pacific book lays it out hands down.

“A transport cannot load in a hostile sea zone” Period.

On Page 8 of the ANNIVERSARY edition, the intent of the rule is explained much more clearly.

In fact, not too long ago, this happend to me, in a battlemap game I played…. I will dig it up.

We had a krieghund ruling on that too…

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=22486.0

Read the last two posts.

I fought this battle on your behlaf more than a year ago!

@Cow:

At the beginning of the Combat Move phase, you may
already have sea units in spaces containing enemy units that
were there at the start of your turn. For example, an enemy
may have built new sea units in a sea zone where you have
surface warships. When your turn comes around again, you
are sharing that sea zone with enemy forces.
If you are sharing a sea zone with enemy surface warships
(not submarines and/or transports), this situation requires
you to do one of the following:
� Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat,
� Leave the sea zone, load units if desired, and conduct
combat elsewhere,
� Leave the sea zone, load units, and return to the same sea
zone to conduct combat (you cannot load units while in a
hostile sea zone), or
� Leave the sea zone and conduct no combat.
Once these sea units have moved and/or participated in
combat, they cannot move or participate in the Noncombat
Move phase of the turn.

Here is what is not clear. 1st it states surface warships which transports are not. 2nd I am choosing to remain in the seazone, it does not state I cannot load units if I decide to do that.

A transport can load units while in any friendly sea zone along its route, including the sea zone it started in.

honestly, the rules were very clear.  the part in bold is right there……

Verq, I’m not sure I get the whole split fleet concept. But I’ll take it. This is the EPIC showdown between the IJN and the USN. I need to know if you want to scramble your fighter in Carolines or not. Cow, I invaded Denmark with a mech and I forgot you have to trick triplea into asking for scramble orders. I have 3dd, 2cv, 6ftrs vs a max of 3 defending fighters. I’m assuming no scramble and will play it that way, but we can go back and manually roll that if you want.

ftwihope.tsvg

I just thought of something else and would like to move 2 more transports out of sz112 and to sz104 in case there is combat in that zone and I’m precluded from moving in the ncm phase. Not bothering with the map as it’s a minor change and I’m pretty confident Cow’s not scrambling.

OOL instructions for this battle would also be appreciated. We can do it turn by turn or however you want.

That’s an interesting loophole.  Scrambling - to prevent a fleet from moving in NCM… or it’s transports.

interesting…

Yeah, I just thought of it and it seems like Germany could take really advantage of this in the right situation. Sacrificing one fighter might be worth stalling a shuck for a turn.