Yeah, TripleA isn’t completely bug-free yet; it relies on players to do the right thing when the interface isn’t obliging.
Sorry, I posted the German turn without editing in the French play… You can make it right in USSR turn.
Seems our communist Major IC in Ukraine is illegitimate… They can only be built on territories with 3 IPC or more. We’ll have to adjust that too somehow…
I was sympathetic about resolving the case with the fighters trapped on a damaged foreign aircraft carrier in your favor, because that was a truly arcane rules scenario… Even though it resulted in the destruction of the Italian navy.
This, on the other hand, seems like more of a gross blunder, a basic rules oversight. It also means we need to go back a couple turns of German / Russian strategy to untangle this particular mess. I would suggest a ‘no refund’ policy here, but we ought to submit the matter to the wisdom of Gargantua for the ultimate resolution of this issue.
Your verdict, Garg?
Wow…
It’s a mess… Anytime you re-do anything, past the immediate country turn, you have to redo everything. :S
So let’s consider the facts:
Unless you are BOTH willing to go all the way back to R7 purchase, and play a new game from there (Which would be silly). In my opinion, the -best- thing to do, is for the allies to eat the 20 IPC’s edit the factory back to a normal one, and finish the game.
If this was a game I was playing at my house. The technical rule I would observe, is that if we’ve played for it for a few turns, and no one knew it was against the rules, and for a time, it was accepted as rule by both parties without question, then I would finish the game with that rule in place. IE, if Germany wants to put a major on a 2 IPC home territory, they now have that option.
Choose any of the above. My reccomendations are the -quick- solutions.
1. Play on, as if it’s a rule
2. Delete it, allies eat the cost, and play on.
I’m fine with either solution - what do you say MIR?
In my opinion, the -best- thing to do, is for the allies to eat the 20 IPC’s edit the factory back to a normal one, and finish the game.
Agreed. Let’s get back to business!
Thanks for the ruling, Garg.
not sure why but i get a freeze when posting turn summary again. second time that’s happened to me.
here’s the saved file, hope it works.
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Alpha 3, version: 2.8
Game History
Round :8
Purchase Units - Japanese
Japanese buy 1 armour, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter and 5 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;
Combat Move - Japanese
Giving bonus movement to units
1 bomber moved from India to 43 Sea Zone
1 bomber moved from Shan State to 43 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 41 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
Combat - Japanese
Battle in 43 Sea Zone
Japanese attack with 2 bombers and 1 destroyer
ANZAC defend with 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter; Americans defend with 1 transport
Japanese roll dice for 2 bombers and 1 destroyer in 43 Sea Zone, round 1 : 3/3 hits
ANZAC roll dice for 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 transport in 43 Sea Zone, round 1 : 2/3 hits
1 bomber owned by the Japanese , 1 destroyer owned by the Japanese , 1 carrier owned by the ANZAC and 1 destroyer owned by the ANZAC lost in 43 Sea Zone
Japanese roll dice for 1 bomber in 43 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits
ANZAC roll dice for 1 fighter and 1 transport in 43 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits
1 bomber owned by the Japanese and 1 fighter owned by the ANZAC lost in 43 Sea Zone
ANZAC win with 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
Casualties for Japanese: 2 bombers and 1 destroyer
Casualties for ANZAC: 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter
Recording Battle Statistics
Non Combat Move - Japanese
1 mech_infantry moved from Sumatra to 41 Sea Zone
1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 41 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
1 mech_infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to French Indo China
1 infantry moved from Siberia to Soviet Far East
Place Units - Japanese
2 destroyers placed in 36 Sea Zone
1 fighter placed in French Indo China
1 armour and 2 infantry placed in India
3 infantry placed in Kwangtung
Turn Complete - Japanese
Japanese collect 26 PUs (7 lost to blockades); end with 26 PUs total
Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 31 PUs
Territory Summary for Japanese :
Paulau Island : 1 infantry
Japan : 3 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 2 artilleries, 1 factory_major, 1 harbour and 12 infantry
Shan State : 1 flag, Burma : 1 flag, India : 1 flag, 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 7 infantry
Malaya : 1 flag, 1 harbour
Kwangtung : 1 flag, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 6 infantry
Soviet Far East : 1 flag, 1 infantry
Siberia : 1 flag, French Indo China : 1 flag, 1 airfield, 1 factory_minor, 1 fighter, 1 harbour, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
Celebes : 1 flag, 1 armour and 1 infantry
Sumatra : 1 flag,
Thank you Great and Glorious Leader for the arbitration decision. Â Gargantua is the best tournament moderator (no offense to any other intended), but one reason this tournament will be so successful is because he is involved and he gives a damn. Â
I defer to MIR and Bold as well. Â
However, I must state my feelings on the situation for the record. Â A $41 penalty is absurb. Â Reducing the IC, OK, but taking the money as if it never existed is too harsh, although admittedly probably deserved. Â But at the minimum, the 7 inf should still be allowed to mobilize, either in Moscow or be held over in storage to the following turn to be placed at an IC. Â Just vanishing them entirely doesn’t make any sense.
This is what I would offer to an opponent: The units are held in storage to be mobilized on your next turn and you get your $20 back in your coffers. Â
The player is already penalized by having to wait 2 rounds to spend his IPC, mobilize those units, and move them forward. Â For me, that’s enough of a penalty. Â I don’t get why it has to be punative sanction to the tune of $41. Â And those that have played me know that I am as laid back on rule-related adjustments as anybody on here, so I do walk-the-walk. Â That’s what I would offer because that is a fair adjustment that puts things as close to realistic as if the rule has not been violated. Â If the opponent had a legitimate gripe that having a boat-load of cash saved up would have caused them to make different purchases and moves, then perhaps it gets parsed out over a couple or three rounds or something.
Now, on DAAK, those stupid Euros would blame the opponent for not noticing the rule mistake, and say “tough, you should have caught it when your opponent built that major IC.” Â And they would let it be. Essentially condoning cheating that doesn’t get caught. That is certainly as idiodic as anything I can think of.
And, I’ll take the full blame for the major IC. Â I suggested it to Bold as an either/or with a minor IC in W Ukraine. Â I thought they had fixed that rule, because it really is one of the stupidest rules. Â I was showing my brother BigBadGoo the map and he pointed it out to me. Â The latest 3.9 doesn’t mention it, so I asked about it in the Global FAQ forum before it was even pointed out to me by MIR or Gazza. Â
But, what is done is done. Â Play on Hirohito!
Â
Not sure why all the question marks are that post. I DID NOT type those…
The Emperor has already clocked out… You’re up next.
Regarding your post: as to my knowledge, no on-board units were deleted – the major IC was merely reduced to a minor.
As for the ‘no refund’ policy on the reduction, I would consider it a small price to pay for the teleportation of several Russian land units closer to the front.
But really, we’re just reviewing the matter on principle because – let’s face it – the overwhelming advantage is still on the Allied side.
That’s not to say I’m giving up… far from it.
I will play this game through until either the last Axis or the last Allied unit is purged from the board (if for no other reason than I need to gain more experience with the TripleA interface before moving on to the next pairing). It’s been very instructive so far, and I think we’ve handled the learning curve and rules concerns in a generally constuctive fashion. [Yay us!]
Waiting for the (dice) miracle to come,
MIR
Well, with that scenerio, I would agree. If a player was allowed to keep units on the board and keep their current position, then a $20 penalty is probably fair…. but he deleted them… 7 inf abducted by aliens.
He deleted 'em, it’s in the History. I didn’t see an add back anywhere in the edits.
OK, that would make sense - i thought the penalty was that we lost the IC and the 7 inf. So we are supposed to only lose the IC and we keep the inf in their current position? if so, just add 7 more inf to Bessarabia then, and mobilize 3 arm in w. ukr and 10 inf to moscow.
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Alpha 3, version: 2.8
Game History
Round :8
Purchase Units - Americans
Americans buy 7 bombers; Remaining resources: 3 PUs;
Combat Move - Americans
Giving bonus movement to units
1 armour moved from Trans-Jordan to 81 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to 81 Sea Zone
1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 81 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 99 Sea Zone to Greece
1 armour moved from 99 Sea Zone to Greece
1 bomber moved from Gibraltar to Greece
1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 26 Sea Zone to 22 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 22 Sea Zone to Marianas
Americans take Marianas from Japanese
1 infantry moved from 22 Sea Zone to Marianas
1 infantry moved from Borneo to 43 Sea Zone
1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 43 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 41 Sea Zone to Sumatra
1 infantry moved from Korea to 6 Sea Zone
1 mech_infantry moved from Korea to 6 Sea Zone
1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 20 Sea Zone to Formosa
1 mech_infantry moved from 20 Sea Zone to Formosa
Combat - Americans
Battle in 110 Sea Zone
Americans attack with 1 destroyer and 1 submarine
Germans defend with 1 submarine
Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 110 Sea Zone, round 1 : 0/1 hits
Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 110 Sea Zone, round 1 : 0/1 hits
Americans roll dice for 1 destroyer in 110 Sea Zone, round 1 : 0/1 hits
Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits
1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 110 Sea Zone
Americans win with 1 destroyer and 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
Americans win with 1 destroyer and 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
Battle in Greece
Americans attack with 1 armour, 1 bomber and 1 infantry
Italians defend with 1 airfield and 1 artillery
Americans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 bomber and 1 infantry in Greece, round 1 : 2/3 hits
Italians roll dice for 1 artillery in Greece, round 1 : 0/1 hits
1 artillery owned by the Italians lost in Greece
Americans win, taking Greece from Italians with 1 armour, 1 bomber and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
Casualties for Italians: 1 artillery
Americans win with 1 armour, 1 bomber and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
Casualties for Italians: 1 artillery
Recording Battle Statistics
Non Combat Move - Americans
1 battleship moved from 6 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
1 battleship moved from 6 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
1 battleship moved from 6 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 22 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 22 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 22 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
1 mech_infantry moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone
1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 54 Sea Zone to 22 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 22 Sea Zone to Marianas
1 mech_infantry moved from 22 Sea Zone to Marianas
2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Korea to Kiangsi
1 tactical_bomber moved from Kiangsu to Kiangsi
1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone
1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
1 armour moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
2 carriers and 3 submarines moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
1 battleship moved from 15 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
1 carrier moved from 81 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
1 bomber moved from Greece to Syria
1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 86 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Brazil to French Guiana
1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
1 mech_infantry moved from Persia to West India
Place Units - Americans
7 bombers placed in Western United States
Turn Complete - Americans
Americans collect 69 PUs; end with 72 PUs total
Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 77 PUs
Objective Americans 4 Philippines: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 82 PUs
Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 87 PUs
Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 97 PUs
Territory Summary for Americans :
Caroline Islands : 1 flag, 1 airfield and 1 harbour
Iwo Jima : 1 flag, Formosa : 1 flag, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
Kiangsi : 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers
Marianas : 1 flag, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
Borneo : 1 flag, Philippines : 1 airfield, 1 artillery, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
Guam : 1 airfield and 1 infantry
Wake Island : 1 airfield
Western United States : 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 7 bombers, 1 factory_major and 1 harbour
Hawaiian Islands : 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
Midway : 1 airfield
Sumatra : 1 flag, 1 infantry
41 Sea Zone : 1 transport
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Alpha 3, version: 2.8
Game History
Round :8
Purchase Units - Chinese
Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: games.strategy.engine.data.ProductionFrontier called productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
Chinese buy 8 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;
Combat Move - Chinese
Giving bonus movement to units
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Chinese player Adding units owned by PlayerID named:Russians to Ukraine: 7 infantry
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
1 infantry moved from Yunnan to Burma
Chinese take Burma from Japanese
Combat - Chinese
Recording Battle Statistics
Non Combat Move - Chinese
3 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
1 fighter moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
1 infantry moved from Kiangsi to Kwangsi
1 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Kiangsi
Place Units - Chinese
2 infantry placed in Kwangsi
6 infantry placed in Yunnan
Turn Complete - Chinese
Chinese collect 23 PUs (1 lost to blockades); end with 23 PUs total
Territory Summary for Chinese :
Shantung : 1 flag, Kwangsi : 1 flag, 4 artilleries, 1 fighter and 15 infantry
Kiangsu : 1 flag, Kiangsi : 1 flag, 1 infantry
Jehol : 1 flag, Manchuria : 1 flag, Yunnan : 6 infantry
Burma : 1 flag, 1 infantry
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Alpha 3, version: 2.8
Game History
Round :8
Purchase Units - British
British buy 1 fighter, 2 infantry, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;
Combat Move - British
Giving bonus movement to units
1 infantry moved from Eastern Persia to 80 Sea Zone
1 armour moved from Persia to 80 Sea Zone
1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 80 Sea Zone to 79 Sea Zone
1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 79 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
1 armour moved from 39 Sea Zone to India
1 infantry moved from 39 Sea Zone to India
1 armour, 1 artillery and 9 infantry moved from West India to India
1 tactical_bomber moved from 79 Sea Zone to India
1 fighter moved from 79 Sea Zone to India
1 cruiser moved from 79 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
1 cruiser moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
Combat - British
Battle in India
British attack with 2 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 10 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
Japanese defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 7 infantry
AA guns fire in India : 0/2 hits
British roll dice for 2 cruisers in India, round 1 : 1/2 hits
British roll dice for 2 armour, 1 artillery, 10 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in India, round 1 : 5/14 hits
Japanese roll dice for 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery and 7 infantry in India, round 1 : 4/9 hits
4 infantry owned by the British , 5 infantry owned by the Japanese and 1 aaGun owned by the Japanese lost in India
British roll dice for 2 armour, 1 artillery, 6 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in India, round 2 : 5/10 hits
Japanese roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry in India, round 2 : 2/4 hits
2 infantry owned by the British , 1 armour owned by the Japanese , 2 infantry owned by the Japanese and 1 artillery owned by the Japanese lost in India
British win, taking India from Japanese, taking Burma from Chinese, taking Borneo from Americans with 2 armour, 1 artillery, 4 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 18
Casualties for Japanese: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery and 7 infantry
Casualties for British: 6 infantry
British win with 2 armour, 1 artillery, 4 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 18
Casualties for Japanese: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery and 7 infantry
Casualties for British: 6 infantry
Recording Battle Statistics
Non Combat Move - British
1 carrier moved from 79 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
1 tactical_bomber moved from India to 41 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from India to 41 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 80 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 81 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 80 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to Greece
1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to Greece
1 transport moved from 79 Sea Zone to 80 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Eastern Persia to Persia
1 transport moved from 79 Sea Zone to 80 Sea Zone
1 transport moved from 79 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
Place Units - British
1 submarine placed in 71 Sea Zone
1 submarine placed in 80 Sea Zone
2 infantry placed in Persia
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber placed in United Kingdom
Turn Complete - British
British collect 34 PUs; end with 34 PUs total
Objective British 1 Original: British met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 39 PUs
Territory Summary for British :
India : 2 armour, 1 artillery and 4 infantry
41 Sea Zone : 1 carrier, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber
39 Sea Zone : 2 cruisers and 2 transports
Iceland : 1 airfield
Quebec : 1 factory_minor
Gibraltar : 1 airfield, 1 harbour, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
New Brunswick Nova Scotia : 1 harbour
Egypt : 1 airfield and 1 harbour
Union of South Africa : 1 factory_minor and 1 harbour
Scotland : 1 airfield
United Kingdom : 5 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 9 artilleries, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter, 1 harbour, 6 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
Syria : 1 flag, Tobruk : 1 flag, Italian Somaliland : 1 flag, Ethiopia : 1 flag, 80 Sea Zone : 1 submarine and 2 transports
Greece : 2 fighters
Iraq : 1 flag, 1 harbour
Eastern Persia : 1 flag, 71 Sea Zone : 1 submarine
Persia : 1 flag, 1 aaGun, 1 factory_minor, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
98 Sea Zone : 1 destroyer and 1 submarine
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Alpha 3, version: 2.8
Game History
Round :8
Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
UK_Pacific collect 10 PUs; end with 10 PUs total
Some units change owners in territory India
Territory Summary for UK_Pacific :
India : 1 factory_minor
I added the Russians to Ukraine. Seemed a little wrong to put em in Bessarabia, even with the $20 penalty. If the minor had been built in W Ukr, then that is pretty close to what Stalin would have.
Yea, sorry if I wasn’t clear enough.
My intention was ONLY to have the IC removed.
LOL, I wasn’t advocating that the Russians lose an ENTIRE turn of income, that’s ridiculous!
Anyways, Forward we go from here!
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Alpha 3, version: 2.8
Game History
Round :8
Purchase Units - Italians
Italians buy 4 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;
Combat Move - Italians
Giving bonus movement to units
Non Combat Move - Italians
Place Units - Italians
1 infantry placed in Southern Italy
3 infantry placed in Northern Italy
Turn Complete - Italians
Italians collect 11 PUs; end with 12 PUs total
