Is it possible to win as the allies after sealion?

YES, it’s possible.

But I’ll wager that depending on the results of the Sea-Lion, and the rest of the game map… that on average the odds switch 60% vs 40% against the allies.

yeah, depends on what is left. obviously uk should pour all resources to hold UK. If japan starts war early then USA reinforces you. Pretty simple, which is why japan don’t start war as early when germany is doing sea lion

@Gargantua:

YES, it’s possible.

But I’ll wager that depending on the results of the Sea-Lion, and the rest of the game map… that on average the odds switch 60% vs 40% against the allies.

How is it possible? Once London is gone, it’s pretty easy for Italy to control Cairo. At that stage, the axis have 6/8 VCs, and all they need to do is push into Russia to get two more, which is relatively easy.

@ronrye:

….all they need to do is push into Russia to get two more, which is relatively easy.

really?  Is it easy?

Even though they’re not collecting an income, the UK have enough start up units to cause a lot of problems for a lot of rounds.

@Vance:

@ronrye:

….all they need to do is push into Russia to get two more, which is relatively easy.

really?  Is it easy?

I agree I don’t see how the allies can win once Sealion has occurred. The US must now take over all the UKs operations in the Atlantic, at least liberate England, but if Germany plays it properly the US will need at huge commitment to retake the UK.  Now as they are working hard to retake the UK they can’t send enough against Japan for Japan to worry about.

I would like to know what the Allies do in your games where Sealion has occurred and how they manage to comeback and win.

@Gargantua:

YES, it’s possible.

But I’ll wager that depending on the results of the Sea-Lion, and the rest of the game map… that on average the odds switch 60% vs 40% against the allies.

I know it can be done, because we’ve done it in face-to-face games here at home.  However, I have yet to see a player at AA.org recover from a Sea Lion success with or without India falling as well.

I can say that recovering from this is insanely difficult.  Just because of how much land is owned by England/India.

@Vance:

@ronrye:

….all they need to do is push into Russia to get two more, which is relatively easy.

really?  Is it easy?

Are you saying you think Russia has enough resources to hold out against Germany?

Perhaps not, but its not a cakewalk either.

Back to the original question: is it possible for the allies to win after sealion? We have a couple answers of yes, but not any strategies for them to do so. How can the Allies win before the Axis get 8 VCs in Europe? How many rounds on average do the allies have to regain ground before the 8 VCs are captured? etc.

@ronrye:

Back to the original question: is it possible for the allies to win after sealion? We have a couple answers of yes, but not any strategies for them to do so. How can the Allies win before the Axis get 8 VCs in Europe? How many rounds on average do the allies have to regain ground before the 8 VCs are captured? etc.

There are basically two Sea Lion scenarios.

1)  Sea Lion with normal Japan.

In this scenario, America, England and India can perform a “holding action” by turtling up around a few Victory Cities to prevent Japan from winning the game.  Meanwhile, America dedicates significant resources either tying up significant German and Italian resources in the process or eventually liberating England and pressing on.  Regardless of if Germany/Italy counter America’s fleet build or not, the fact that there is the Americans coming in pulls enough pressure off Russia to allow them to live and eventually roll over the Germans.

2)  Sea Lion with Crush Calcutta.

I have never seen the allies recover from this.  Without India to help with the holding action, the allies don’t have enough resources, enough deployment areas or enough income (don’t forget India is a VC for Japan too!) to both stop Japan AND stop Germany.  This is why we have a gentle-person’s agreement not to do both India AND England.

Actually, right now we’re playing England as one nation with the only capitol in London, if you want the honest truth, this has solved SOOOO many problems and has failed to add a single unit to the board in the form of a bid.  no setup changes, no new units, problem solved.

@Cmdr:

@ronrye:

Back to the original question: is it possible for the allies to win after sealion? We have a couple answers of yes, but not any strategies for them to do so. How can the Allies win before the Axis get 8 VCs in Europe? How many rounds on average do the allies have to regain ground before the 8 VCs are captured? etc.

There are basically two Sea Lion scenarios.

1)  Sea Lion with normal Japan.

In this scenario, America, England and India can perform a “holding action” by turtling up around a few Victory Cities to prevent Japan from winning the game.  Meanwhile, America dedicates significant resources either tying up significant German and Italian resources in the process or eventually liberating England and pressing on.  Regardless of if Germany/Italy counter America’s fleet build or not, the fact that there is the Americans coming in pulls enough pressure off Russia to allow them to live and eventually roll over the Germans.

2)  Sea Lion with Crush Calcutta.

I have never seen the allies recover from this.  Without India to help with the holding action, the allies don’t have enough resources, enough deployment areas or enough income (don’t forget India is a VC for Japan too!) to both stop Japan AND stop Germany.  This is why we have a gentle-person’s agreement not to do both India AND England.Â

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Actually, right now we’re playing England as one nation with the only capitol in London, if you want the honest truth, this has solved SOOOO many problems and has failed to add a single unit to the board in the form of a bid.  no setup changes, no new units, problem solved.

I need to see a game where the calcutta/London crush actually works in order to agree to how good it is.

I think basicly in a nutshell, If a sucessful sealion is completed, (we found in our games at home), basicly the USA i forced to spend big in the atlantic to retake London (which is a must if the allies want to win). However this takes away from the Pacific theater and Japan has a much easier time taking victory cities (by the end of turn 3 Japans IPC output is near 50! and only get bigger with time). Also Italy turns into a super power swallowing up africa and the middle east. I honestly cannot see a way back for the allies, unless huge mistakes are made or dice rolls are awful.

Germany takes London, 90% of the time it results in Axis Victory.

This may not be typical, but I played a game a while back where Germany did take London but the Allies still won.  In fact, London was never liberated from Germany.  USA came in and managed to take Rome, then liberated Paris and just kept hammering at Germany until they finally broke through.  If I remember right, Germany was having problems in Russia and had lost most of the Luftwaffe in sinking the Royal Navy and taking London.

I don’t remember what was going on with Japan, but apparently the Pacific Allies managed to keep them in check if the US was able to muster enough force to take Rome.

We could always play, or I can sketch it out for you GHR

Thing is, even if Japan decides to switch gears, setting up the Crush India isn’t too much of a problem

@knp7765:

This may not be typical, but I played a game a while back where Germany did take London but the Allies still won.  In fact, London was never liberated from Germany.  USA came in and managed to take Rome, then liberated Paris and just kept hammering at Germany until they finally broke through.  If I remember right, Germany was having problems in Russia and had lost most of the Luftwaffe in sinking the Royal Navy and taking London.

I don’t remember what was going on with Japan, but apparently the Pacific Allies managed to keep them in check if the US was able to muster enough force to take Rome.

This sounds perfectly plausible.  As long as the Allies can hang on to Honolulu and Sydney, Japan can do whatever it likes in India, China and the Philippines but not get the VCs to win.

Meanwhile time is on the allies side in Europe.  After G3 sea lion, the Germans should be basically turtled in to Berlin and USSR should be all over Eastern Europe.  The direct route from Berlin and Moscow has 5 territories, so if Germany spends its UK windfall on land units round 4 and then starts marching eastward round 5 (and doesn’t suffer any setbacks despite USSR having very large income for several turns), the earliest they can possibly be at Moscow is round 10.

Agreed.  Even without England or France I think if the Axis have not won by round 13, they are most likely going to lose.

As Germany, I would want Russia to bring the fight towards Berlin, and save me the time and fuel making the trip with my own units.

I think its only possible if you are able to destroy the german fleet afterwards.  Without that fleet the Russians can take finland and norway and will have a reasonably secore northern flank. If that fleet is still there the Germans can drop in 20 to 26 units in lenningrad and the Russians will be on the defensive.