Why can't you scramble over neighbouring ground territory?

@Red:

A large group of fighters in one territory could be divied up to meet multiple attacks in other territories by the same opponent on the same turn.

What you suggest would seriously unbalance fighters/tac bombers, giving them super defense capability.

Actually, I don’t believe Gargantua was wanting to change the 3 plane scramble limit for airbases, he just thinks they should be able to scramble over adjacent land territories as well as sea zones.

There would still be a limit of 3 planes that could scramble.  For example:  the Airbase in W Germany could scramble 3 planes.  Say USA has gotten strong in Europe and is attacking N Italy, Holland/Belgium and Norway (from SZ 112) all in the same turn.  Germany could have 100 fighters on W Germany, but could still ONLY scramble 3 and would have to decide which battle(s) to send those planes to.

@Gargantua:

For the record: I’m not suggesting anything… I just think the concept is strange, and I’m looking for reasons to explain this to new players, because they give ME a hard time about it.

As I said, you ARE scrambling everytime you defend your home territory (defined as where you landed), with an airbase you may also scramble to defend fleets in port of your home territory.  Otherwise, you run into the situations where you are scrambling 20 miles away to protect fleet and 1000 miles away to defend a neighboring territory.  Fleet defense makes sense, but neighboring territory?  By the time you got there the battle would be over!

@Cmdr:

@Gargantua:

For the record: I’m not suggesting anything… I just think the concept is strange, and I’m looking for reasons to explain this to new players, because they give ME a hard time about it.

As I said, you ARE scrambling everytime you defend your home territory (defined as where you landed), with an airbase you may also scramble to defend fleets in port of your home territory.  Otherwise, you run into the situations where you are scrambling 20 miles away to protect fleet and 1000 miles away to defend a neighboring territory.  Fleet defense makes sense, but neighboring territory?  By the time you got there the battle would be over!

I admit, The argument breaks down when you’re using the west german airfield to defend the shoreline of Norway or an Amur airbase defending the shore of SFE.  That said, because scale isn’t considered, those oddities must just be accepted.

Scrambling is simply supposed to represent Coastal Air Fields rapidly deploying to defend fleet movements/attacks within close range of the shoreline, which is where most naval battles occurred.

It is NOT meant to represent sortees to defend other land attacks.  So, quite simply, you don’t scramble to defend tank movements.

@knp7765:

@Red:

   A large group of fighters in one territory could be divied up to meet multiple attacks in other territories by the same opponent on the same turn.Â

What you suggest would seriously unbalance fighters/tac bombers, giving them super defense capability.Â

Actually, I don’t believe Gargantua was wanting to change the 3 plane scramble limit for airbases, he just thinks they should be able to scramble over adjacent land territories as well as sea zones.

There would still be a limit of 3 planes that could scramble.  For example:  the Airbase in W Germany could scramble 3 planes.  Say USA has gotten strong in Europe and is attacking N Italy, Holland/Belgium and Norway (from SZ 112) all in the same turn.  Germany could have 100 fighters on W Germany, but could still ONLY scramble 3 and would have to decide which battle(s) to send those planes to.

I wasn’t talking about a 3 plane limit.  The AAP40 rules and FAQ’s don’t have that limit that I can see.  (I don’t have AA Europe 1940 yet…waiting for the reprint.)

But even with that limit an opponent could end up scrambling 6 or more…because land territories usually have more than one territory adjacent to them.  So one could leave a territory undefended from air attack while counting on 6 fighters to put up a very strong defense.  If you do that, you better make air bases very expensive…and fighters too.

@Red:

@knp7765:

@Red:

�  � A large group of fighters in one territory could be divied up to meet multiple attacks in other territories by the same opponent on the same turn.�

What you suggest would seriously unbalance fighters/tac bombers, giving them super defense capability.�

Actually, I don’t believe Gargantua was wanting to change the 3 plane scramble limit for airbases, he just thinks they should be able to scramble over adjacent land territories as well as sea zones.

There would still be a limit of 3 planes that could scramble.�  For example:�  the Airbase in W Germany could scramble 3 planes.�  Say USA has gotten strong in Europe and is attacking N Italy, Holland/Belgium and Norway (from SZ 112) all in the same turn.�  Germany could have 100 fighters on W Germany, but could still ONLY scramble 3 and would have to decide which battle(s) to send those planes to.

I wasn’t talking about a 3 plane limit.  The AAP40 rules and FAQ’s don’t have that limit that I can see.  (I don’t have AA Europe 1940 yet…waiting for the reprint.)

But even with that limit an opponent could end up scrambling 6 or more…because land territories usually have more than one territory adjacent to them.  So one could leave a territory undefended from air attack while counting on 6 fighters to put up a very strong defense.  If you do that, you better make air bases very expensive…and fighters too.

Alpha rules (currently Alpha +3), the creator endorsed rule changes, supercede OOB rules, and have revised Scrambling so that it’s no longer limited to “Islands” and now can be used to scramble from any coastal territory. Airbases are now limited to 3 planes max.

While these rules have not been released on the publishers website or in an official FAQ/Errata, most players on these forums are aware of them or have playtested them.  This thread hinges on the Alpha version of scrambling.  OOB rules are very different (and as you note, limited to only islands).

@kcdzim:

Alpha rules (currently Alpha +3), the creator endorsed rule changes, supercede OOB rules, and have revised Scrambling so that it’s no longer limited to “Islands” and now can be used to scramble from any coastal territory. Airbases are now limited to 3 planes max.

While these rules have not been released on the publishers website or in an official FAQ/Errata, most players on these forums are aware of them or have playtested them.  This thread hinges on the Alpha version of scrambling.  OOB rules are very different (and as you note, limited to only islands).

I’m glad to see the change to allow a scramble from a coastal territory with airbase (I thought it was an odd restriction, though not a game breaker.)  The 3 plane limit on a single territory scramble is not much of a concern, the aircraft are still available for land defense.  However, doing a 6 or 9 plane scramble as I pointed out would happen from multiple territories and having such a mammoth coverage zone for each unit would throw everything out of kilter for the reasons given.

Try “carrier war” from Omega, their C.A.P. is just what your looking for

@Red:

I’m glad to see the change to allow a scramble from a coastal territory with airbase (I thought it was an odd restriction, though not a game breaker.)  The 3 plane limit on a single territory scramble is not much of a concern, the aircraft are still available for land defense.  However, doing a 6 or 9 plane scramble as I pointed out would happen from multiple territories and having such a mammoth coverage zone for each unit would throw everything out of kilter for the reasons given.

Okay, I think I see what you are talking about, scrambling from more than one air base adjacent to a given territory.  Like, for example, Germany scrambling from the air bases in Paris and West Germany to defend Holland/Belgium.  Yes, that would make it hard for anyone attacking Holland/Belgium and probably too easy for Germany to defend like that.
Although, if Germany bought an airbase for Norway, you would have the same situation for SZ 112.  Germany could scramble 3 fighters from W Germany and 3 fighters from Norway to defend SZ 112.  Of course, Germany would be out the $15 for the airbase on Norway plus $30 for the 3 fighters to put there.

I think the rule would be more clear if scrambling only applied to island airbases (including England and japan). If sealion is more difficult then so be it. Sealion seems like it is a little too easy anyways.