What to do as allies when Germany goes Sealion

@Clyde85:

I would think that the Germans would be paying greater attention, and spending greater resources, on the Soviets on their door steps then the US across the atlantic as the Soviets pose the greater threat. The idea of a heavily defended London, or the Germans being able to counter-attack and retake London seems unlikely as it would stretch the Germans beyond their means.

Yes, I think you are right here.  If I remember right, in that game I mentioned where London was not liberated, part of the reason Germany was beaten was because of all they spent on London, both capturing it and holding it.  All those troops and tanks sitting there were that many NOT holding back the Russians.  Plus, even though US didn’t liberate London, they did manage to trash the German navy and pretty much dominate the Atlantic.  So with no transports available, all those German guys were pretty much stuck on England and Germany really could have used them against Russia.

Are we talkin about Alpha 3?

In Alpha 3 Sea Lion is almost a given as you have 97% success rates with, at most, a loss of 2 aircraft to the AA Guns.  From there you have all those nice transports with which to use to threaten Russia’s northern flank which should give them pause about sending a massive contingent into the Balkans (down by Greece and Romania) despite the obvious financial benefits.

What to do about it really depends on what Japan’s doing.  If they’re trying to race across the Russian tundra, then go all into the Atlantic and try to free England.  If they are trying for a VC win themselves, then you have to stop them and cannot dedicate much to helping Russia - which is why you see Russia falling most of the time.

What I’ve been doing is moving Australian, Indian and British aircraft to Russia when this happens, trying to give them enough time to defend while I stop Japan from “winning”.

@theROCmonster:

No one has explained how you can liberate London if Germany has 11 transports and 10 planes and 2 bombards in range of London. The moment US went to gibralter with a bunch of men I would let them take london back. Let London make their money and then just retake it again. What is the counter to Germany just doing this?

In my senerio, the American fleet is to large to allow Germany to retake London.

@theROCmonster:

Granted you are correct grasshopper, but doesn’t Japan easily win in this scenario? I dont know how Japan doesn’t take Hawaii on Turn 4 or so and India around the same time…

That is assuming that Japan isnt trying to invade Siberia to help off set the German attention on their (germanys) western front. If Japan is going south then the US might be unable to send a fleet the size Grasshopper is talking, but thats only if Japan is going south.
Even still, if the US was to spend the first few turns (while they are still at peace with the world) preparing for liberating, moving all their forces to the eastern sea board and spending IPC there(about 52 I think) as well, then the Us should have a fleet capable of liberating London and keeping the Germans out. Then I’d assume the US would have to spend the next several turns (begining with turn 4) concentrating on the pacific with the bulk if not all of their resources going to check the Japanese.

I agree that stopping Pacific Axis victory without investing anything until later US turns (US3 or US4?) will be very difficult (I am not certain about impossible since Japan would have to split it’s fleet to hold Hawaii and take Calcutta).

That leaves the original question of how to respond to Sea Lion as the Allies (the US in particular).

@wheatbeer:

I agree that stopping Pacific Axis victory without investing anything until later US turns (US3 or US4?) will be very difficult (I am not certain about impossible since Japan would have to split it’s fleet to hold Hawaii and take Calcutta).

That leaves the original question of how to respond to Sea Lion as the Allies (the US in particular).

Take Calcutta round 3, don’t split the fleet.

@Clyde85:

@theROCmonster:

Granted you are correct grasshopper, but doesn’t Japan easily win in this scenario? I dont know how Japan doesn’t take Hawaii on Turn 4 or so and India around the same time…

That is assuming that Japan isnt trying to invade Siberia to help off set the German attention on their (germanys) western front. If Japan is going south then the US might be unable to send a fleet the size Grasshopper is talking, but thats only if Japan is going south.
Even still, if the US was to spend the first few turns (while they are still at peace with the world) preparing for liberating, moving all their forces to the eastern sea board and spending IPC there(about 52 I think) as well, then the Us should have a fleet capable of liberating London and keeping the Germans out. Then I’d assume the US would have to spend the next several turns (begining with turn 4) concentrating on the pacific with the bulk if not all of their resources going to check the Japanese.

This is absolutly correct, once the Us forces leave the harbour in New York, that force better be large enough to take back London, and maintain a shield strong enough to allow the UK to recover their war effort, because their won’t be enough game time to go back to New York for reenforcements. That said, every penny from the moment the US fleet leaves for England, must be spent in the Pacific. It’s possible to recuperate against Japan who has many difficult VCs to gather. What’s not acceptable, is going for a half ass liberation for London, because you might be worried about Japan. The immediate threat is the increase of Germany’s income, and the disappearance of the UKs income. Unless you reclaim England and hold it for good, it won’t matter what happens in the Pacific.

Another thing to consider - the smarter Axis player is not going to go around gobbling up all the land England has if they take London.  They’ll turn right around and focus on Russia virtually ignoring Africa and thus negating any income boosts that the Americans might get there.  Strategically Bombing the Naval Base in Gibraltar is a favorite of mine, it keeps the Allies out of range but keeps the Germans in range.  Since England’s in German hands, no one can repair the base!

My opinion on the smarter tactic anyway.

@Cmdr:

Take Calcutta round 3, don’t split the fleet.

Are you attacking on J2?  Because if you are not either the UK or ANZ should be able to get a warship into SZ37 on turn 2, which will block any transports in SZ36 from participating in the J3 attack on Calcutta.  Or are you taking Calcutta on J3 with only three transports?

@JamesG:

@Cmdr:

Take Calcutta round 3, don’t split the fleet.

Are you attacking on J2?  Because if you are not either the UK or ANZ should be able to get a warship into SZ37 on turn 2, which will block any transports in SZ36 from participating in the J3 attack on Calcutta.  Or are you taking Calcutta on J3 with only three transports?

I like to take FIC during J2, and than move most of my war ships from 35 into a sea zone adjacent to India. That way, I can mop up all blockers during J3, to clear the way for a landing in J4.

@JamesG:

@Cmdr:

Take Calcutta round 3, don’t split the fleet.

Are you attacking on J2?  Because if you are not either the UK or ANZ should be able to get a warship into SZ37 on turn 2, which will block any transports in SZ36 from participating in the J3 attack on Calcutta.  Or are you taking Calcutta on J3 with only three transports?

I am not sure where all these round 2 attacks on Calcutta rumors came from but no.  The best time to attack is on Round 3 almost all of the time.  Otherwise, you could allow the Americans to attack the German fleet and make Russia super easy to play!

I would attack on round 2 under the following circumstances:
1)  There was a large stack of yummy, handsome Brits in Burma
2)  America had only the starting or almost only the starting Atlantic Units
3)  England’s being annoying and trying to put all their destroyers out everywhere (this includes Australia which is literally part of the British Commonwealth)

Otherwise, attack on round 3 with a more decisive victory on both sides of the Prime Meridian.

@Cmdr:

@JamesG:

@Cmdr:

Take Calcutta round 3, don’t split the fleet.

Are you attacking on J2?  Because if you are not either the UK or ANZ should be able to get a warship into SZ37 on turn 2, which will block any transports in SZ36 from participating in the J3 attack on Calcutta.  Or are you taking Calcutta on J3 with only three transports?

I am not sure where all these round 2 attacks on Calcutta rumors came from but no.  The best time to attack is on Round 3 almost all of the time.  Otherwise, you could allow the Americans to attack the German fleet and make Russia super easy to play!

I would attack on round 2 under the following circumstances:
1)  There was a large stack of yummy, handsome Brits in Burma
2)  America had only the starting or almost only the starting Atlantic Units
3)  England’s being annoying and trying to put all their destroyers out everywhere (this includes Australia which is literally part of the British Commonwealth)

Otherwise, attack on round 3 with a more decisive victory on both sides of the Prime Meridian.

Jenn,

You are missing my point.  What I’m saying is if you don’t declare war on UK/ANZ on J2, then you can’t prevent them from getting a warship to SZ37 on turn 2.  That warship will prevent any TRNs in SZ36 from participating in a J3 assault on Calcutta.  So a six TRN attack on Calcutta on J3 is impossible unless Japan declares war on J2.  Assuming of course UK/ANZ have at least one warship in range of SZ37 going into turn two (a reasonable assumption).

So it seems Japan’s options for an early round attack on Calcutta are a J2 declaration of war followed by a J3 sacking of India, or a J3 declaration followed by a J4 attack on Calcutta.

The questions are:

1. What are the best things for the US to do to make the Axis pay for J2 attack?
   or
   2a) How much harder is it to take India J4 after the UK gets another round to stack?
   2b) Does the extra round Japan has to spend staging for a J4 attack on Calcutta give the ANZ and the US enough time to prepare for Japan swinging back east?

@theROCmonster:

How many transports would US have to have to liberate London with? 10 transports? Or how many warships. My germany has 3 subs 1 dd 1 cruiser 1bb 1 ac 10 planes that can hit a US fleet. How many units would US fleet have to have to not be attacked by 17 units?

Well by turn 2 in units already in their posession their US can have 1 sub, 2DD, 3 Cruisers, 1BB, 1AC with fighter and Tac on it and 3 transports in sz101(east coast). Not a bad sized little fleet to start with, and then factor in the US having 52IPCs to spend on turn 1 with the ability to place up 6 units in sz101 and you can extrapolate from there. I mean right off the bat I could see adding 1BB and 1AC and a Tac(total = 47IPC) to sz101 on turn 1, which I think would already be more then enough to over power the German naval units you listed. Then spend turn 2 and 3 adding transports and cannon fodder units like Destroyers(of which you could add 6 of in one turn for a total of 8 ) and Subs(of which you could add 8 in 1 turn for a total of 9), or even Cruisers(which you could add 4 of in one turn for a total of 7) to counter the German air units you listed. Now the only question is how large on an occupation force does Germany have in London and how many transports will the US need to add (as I have a feeling 3 wont be enough).

James:

Why does it have to be a round 3 assault on India?  Why not round 4?  That way America cannot hurt the Germans at all until the Germans can get back to the range of their airbases?

If America’s all clustered around SZ 26, without putting anything into the Atlantic, then a round 2 smash of Kwangtung, Malaya, Sham State, Yunnan and all British/Australian ships in range makes sense.  (Burma with 20+ fighters could be an option instead of using them in other attacks if India is fool-hardy enough to leave their army exposed in Burma.)

Jenn,

It doesn’t have to be J3 for an assault on India, though you have been the one espousing taking out the UK on both sides of the board on Turn 3.  But what about these questions regarding a J4 assault:

2a) How much harder is it to take India J4 after the UK gets another round to stack?
2b) Does the extra round Japan has to spend staging for a J4 attack on Calcutta give the ANZ and the US enough time to prepare for Japan swinging back east?

If I read you correctly, you are saying that US builds and postioning in the Atlantic on US1 is the thing that would make you not do a J2 DoW.  Can you provide more detail on what US1 should look like in the Atlantic to punish Germany for a J2 DoW?

Thanks.