CorriganBP (Allies) vs Cmdr Jen (Axis) Alpha +3, Objectives, no technologies

Jennifer

CRD:

SZ 97:
Dice Rolls: 6@2; Total Hits: 26@2: (4, 6, 4, 3, 1, 2)

SZ 93:
Dice Rolls: 2@2; Total Hits: 12@2: (5, 2)

Jennifer

Collect 15 Saved - 8 CRD + 2 Oil + 14 TT = 23 IPC

Germany:

Buy(47)

9 Infantry
2 Fighters

Combat Moves:

2 Fighters, Tactical Bomber, Strategic Bomber, 3 Infantry to S. Germany
3 Infantry, 2 Fighters, Tactical Bomber, Strategic Bomber to Hungary
2 Infantry, Fighter, Tactical to Novgorod
Infantry to Finland

Combat:

Novgorod:
Attacker:
Dice Rolls: 2@1 1@3 1@4; Total Hits: 12@1: (5, 4)1@3: (5)1@4: (1)
Defender:
Dice Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (2)

Jennifer

Hungary:
Attacker:
Dice Rolls: 3@1 2@3 2@4; Total Hits: 33@1: (5, 1, 3)2@3: (1, 4)2@4: (6, 1)
Defender:
Dice Rolls: 2@2; Total Hits: 02@2: (3, 4)

Jennifer

S. Germany:
Attacker:
Dice Rolls: 3@1 2@3 2@4; Total Hits: 23@1: (5, 5, 5)2@3: (2, 5)2@4: (4, 6)
Defender:
Dice Rolls: 2@2; Total Hits: 02@2: (3, 4)

Jennifer

Okay, it’s pretty much game over when Russia takes Sardinia, Sicily and Crete. You proved it could be done and not really too late in the game (Round 12). The whole idea of crushing England early is to win early before the allies can win - to do that you sacrifice high value pieces, pieces I needed when we decided to see what would happen.

We can give it another couple of rounds if you want. Was kind of hoping you’d miss that Italy could can open and your Russian stack odds were pretty bad but eh, didn’t happen.

Like to point out, Japan DID win this game already. :P Just for those of you who are not playing but downloading the map.

01_CorriganBP_v_Jennifer_13Agermany.AAM

corriganbp

I agree that Japan did get the VC win. However, this game does prove that it is possible for the Axis to gain a split map VC win, but not snow ball into an inevitable win.

The key was that the USA lost hawaii because it was about 1 turn behind in its naval builds; however, after a round or two of building in W USA it was able to retake Hawaii and it doesn’t appear that Japan will be able to take it back.

Personally, I like the split map VC win, but I have to accept that it is one more advantage to the Axis that may not be necessary given the currently crazily pro axis setup.

So my personally preference would be to fix the setup not the split map VC conditions, but it is true that if you like the current setup and its virtually non preventable sea lion, then one slight nudge you could give the allies would be to restore the global 14 VC win condition. It would have made the difference in this game.

We can continue if you like, or we can stop. It does look like under a 14 VC win condition, the Axis are doomed - but as you pointed out, you gained the split map victory early on.

Something like this happened to me in classic about 20 years ago, we were playing first edition where the economic victory standard was lower than 2nd edition, and my opponent clearly lost the war but won the game. It was actually my first A&A loss.

corriganbp

I disagree that Sea Lion is a short term strategy. There are games were it helps them secure long term dominance.

corriganbp

In my opinion, the key reason why it did not in this game was the R2 Japanese DOW that allowed America to strike hard at the Kriegsmarine before it had a chance to use the bank of England to finance its new navy. This allowed the Allies to gain naval superiority which it never lost in the Atlantic. This naval superiority allowed it to shut down Italy. The combination of allied naval superiority that allowed the allies to reinforce the balkans with air power, allowed the Russians to remain permanently in the Balkans and allowed them to never lose their economic edge.

And all of this was based on a R2 Japense DOW, that I suspect that you won’t use again.

This game does NOT prove that the sea lion strategy is beatable if only I had managed the naval balance between the atlantic and pacific more carefully, because without the J2 attack, I would have had bigger problems on my hands, like trying to figure out how to get past the italian and german naval juggernauts.

corriganbp

The amazing thing about your sea lion is that you didn’t lose high value pieces. The dice were kind to you. The tank stack was however stranded by the destruction of the Kriegsmarine for much of the game.

However, it most normal games the tank stack would have been taken out by the British defenses anyway, in fact they probably should have taken out 2 or 3 German fighters as well.

Jennifer

There are a few issues with looking at the board. (1) Russia should not be getting an NO for territories with 0 IPC value. I thought that was a given, but Larry proved me wrong and made it possible anyway. He obviously was tunnelvisioned on what they did on his personal gaming table(s). I don’t think any of the play testers even thought about what would happen with a large American fleet moving Russian infantry about to take no-nothing islands. (2) 14 Victory Cities is darn near impossible for the Axis to get. 12 would be a better number with the current configuration. (3) The Americans just make a stupid amount of cash. There are two ways I think that could be fixed. (A) Force them to purchase the complex upgrades (at least that kills 20 IPC at least.) (B) Remove the 10 IPC NO for holding territories that are never lost anyway (taken and retaken immediately thereafter does not count as lost) and put it somewhere it can be taken away. I like 5 IPC for FIC, Malaya, Sham State, Siam and Burma being allied controlled and 5 IPC if no S. American territories are in Allied or Axis hands (except the British, French and Dutch one north of Brazil.)

Other than that, I really think the only way for the Axis to win is to win early and win big. America could not keep up because Japan had India (no threat from the rear) and the DEI really early in the game allowing them to match America for a full round to retain Hawaii. What made it for you and killed it for Noll is that you put a minor in Greece and Romania, he did not, and thus, I pushed Noll out of Europe rather easily.

I would not mind continuing, if we go that Russia does not collect NOs for islands worth 0 IPC. ~ My personal house rule!

Or better, switch sides. I think I know a way for America to stop the VC win early, of course, no reason you have to kill India yourself…

Jennifer

Yea, I agree, that was a huge blunder on my end. I saw the Americans abandoning the Pacific, I should have held back one more round - even if it would have allowed India to build enough to stop me.

I would probably attack on Round 2 again, in the future, if and only if the United States was not building heavily in the Atlantic. That caused serious problems.

corriganbp

I would agree with your personal house rule changes that favor the axis, if and only if the game was already so biased in favor of them for other reasons.

Larry explicitly developed the current Russian NO to overcome sea lion, so it’s hard to argue that Russia can’t use it to do so.

Also, if those islands weren’t worth anything, clearly I would not have invested the time and effort into taking them.

corriganbp

How many Axis vs. Allied wins are you seeing your games so far?

corriganbp

yes, the factories helped and i was glad that I did that. And there were turns where I even built fighters on the front lines so that I could hold them. But I also needed the American air force to help secure them.

corriganbp

One additional thing, had you not had such great dice with England, I could have liberated it a long time ago.

Jennifer

@corriganbp:

One additional thing, had you not had such great dice with England, I could have liberated it a long time ago.

Had I not declared war on Round 2, and had normal dice, you would probably have gotten London liberated about now, if not later given the combined Axis fleet would have been in SZ 91 for a while. I made a few mistakes.

1) DOW Round 2.
2) Taking Africa - it was never my intent to do so, I certainly should not have done so! Egypt should have been my only target, if even that. Generally I hit Greece, S. France and Gibraltar and let the British go where they want, should have done it that way too - no complex in Egypt for America then.
3) Abandoning England, I should have kept the tank stack there and prevented liberation. Then I would have only to hold Novgorod and Egypt and won that way as well (granted, a lot of my actions were because I was planning for Japan to win!)
4) Agreeing to continue the game after I won. :P

Want to switch sides?

Jennifer

@corriganbp:

yes, the factories helped and i was glad that I did that. And there were turns where I even built fighters on the front lines so that I could hold them. But I also needed the American air force to help secure them.

Yes, it was interesting to organize that pile of army in Romania and see 9 Russian aircraft there.

corriganbp

Actually, you need Vologograd or Moscow as well.

1.) London
2.) Paris
3.) Rome
4.) Warsaw
5.) Berlin
6.) Leningrad
7.) Cairo (but now you are violating one of your own directives)
8.) One other city.

I have always said that the Euro Axis VC conditions were much harder than Japan’s although not everyone agrees.

Yeah, if you want to see if you can beat my sea lion strategy again, we can return to the normal sides.

So you are not yet convinced that the current set up is over the top pro Axis?

Jennifer

Wait, I didn’t say that! My axis did win, after all! And there would have been some other changes had I known I would be agreeing to go on. For one, I would not have let China grow so large, as it was, they were 3 spaces from Hong Kong and Beijing when I took Hawaii so I was not overly worried about them, but that changed when we moved on farther. More fleet for Germany would have helped as well, at least in keeping going. Not to say I did not make mistakes, Africa was one…

I’m willing to play you again, on either side for fun. I have grown to dislike playing games to “test a theory” because, as Noll will attest, you can sacrifice everything on the board to prevent the theory from working. It’s what Jimmy did for Alpha 2 sea lion, he gave up all of Africa, the Middle East and the Med Sea to “save” England. Noll gave up Euro-Asia and the American fleet to “save” India. Worked cause I stupidly sank his fleet instead of crashing against India. Eh. Live and learn.

Just tell me which side you want, if you are axis, create a thread and post a link in here - please, else I’ll create a thread and post a link here.

Jennifer

Could also take Cairo if you run into a snag in Russia. If it’s the 8th VC odds are the allies cannot liberate it - as they don’t have African income or complexes, right?

CorriganBP (Allies) vs Cmdr Jen (Axis) Alpha +3, Objectives, no technologies

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