Axis and Allies DARKSIDE - Concentration Camps rule

@the-captain

Due to the fact that whilst most of your rules are historically accurate, their execution I have some problems with. To fix that, I wrote an article on changes to The Captain’s rules:

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/37504/let-s-make-the-axis-and-allies-global-1940-expansion-rules-even-more-accurate?_=1636385389023

Hey Folks,

has anyone of you ever tried HBG “Battle Shapes (3D)” rules (fortifications, rockets, etc.) in your 1940-Global games? (www. historicalboardgaming.com/Battle-Shapes-3D-printed_c_425.html)
If ‘yes’, what are you’re experiences with them? Are they a great imrpovement? Or to expensive, unbalanced or simply unrealistic?

I think its worth it, just for the warhawks hehe. Though I agree that the game would have been a much better investment (and a better play too) if it had included a unique artillery sculpt. The OOB 1941 game benefits immeasurably from the inclusion of artillery in the roster. I use 1942.2 art sculpts when I play it.

Depends where you buy the game, but if you can pick up two copies and ship them at the same time, you get a decent number of fighters and tanks. You’re still left holding the bag on Italy, Anzac etc unfortunately.

Revised has some nice colored units for UK and Germany, with lime greens and grays. I still like the mini stukas. The limes for China and the Grays for Vichy or Romania can be cool, you could probably get some mileage out of them.

I wish HBG made a few more pieces to supplement the older boxed materials in similar sculpt colors. But you can still find some decent stuff there, might be cheaper. I like 1941 though. Its map is a crazy shuck-fest. Sucks to buy 2 or more copies just to get sculpts, since then you have another map you don’t need, but hey at least you can snap up a couple extra roundels in the process  :-D

I’m still surprised that A&A doesn’t put out supplemental materials for the regular boardgames. They did it for the miniatures game with the larger sculpts, but not the boardgame, and the boardgame is the only one I play! I like my sculpts tiny and matching the official materials when possible. ;)

@Tortn91:

How about when Paris is taken Normandy-Bordeaux, Southern France, the navy in Mediterranean and the french force in North Africa joined the Nazis, but half of the units in France is moved to UK represents Free French forces who fled and the rest of the French territories in Africa and around the world remains unde Free French control.

It would have to be considered an alternate-history scenario.  The French Navy and the French colonial forces never joined the Nazis, and the number of French forces who crossed the Channel from France to England to form the Free French was nowhere near large enough to represent half of France’s military units.

On the other hand, it’s perfectly accurate to have some of France’s colonial territories go over to the Free French side soon after France is occupied becauset that’s what happened in reality.

What would be neat is if you can arrange it so that all the war crimes result in IPC gains but have morality point losses.  If at some point those war crimes result in tangible bad things happening to you (e.g. Fifth column etc), then you have to balance the benefits against the potential harms and it really becomes a game of “How much can I get away with?”.

I totally agree.
Timeframe and time lapse between turn makes a better understanding of how units interactions in combat rounds depict in an impressionistic way WWII battles.

If people want to see a houserule set intended to simplify interactions between these units, based partly on Classic Submarine unit here is the start of the opening post. Follow the title-link:

@Baron:

THE ISSUE

According to Dedo (see quote below), and probably other players (I’m thinking about Toblerone77), many new players seem to have issues with rules about defenseless Transports, Submarines immune to aircrafts or not and the various combinations with Destroyer presence or absence.

The learning curve can be hard, particularly when special interactions which deviate from regular rules and principles of this game are involved. Since many months I tried to find different solutions to answer this issue of complex and out of usual interactions. Maybe now this can have a useful purpose.

Wanting to help new players focus more on strategy than bogging on special rules, I would like to introduce six changes to Transport, Destroyer and Submarine combat rules to simplify things.

@Baron:

@dedo:

When following the forums of 1941 and 1942.2, I counted roundabout 20 topics (that is up to 10 percent) with questions concerning submarine or transport rules in both of the forums. It seems that for new players especially these rulebook parts are difficult to understand. Wouldn’t it be appropriate to pin down these rules in general parlance and to make them sticky in the forums? Honor to the members, who has already answered the more or less countless questions concerning these topics, but in my opinion we should put an end to this and stop to reinvent the wheel by giving a clearer wording to these mechanics of the game obviously difficult to understand. What do you think?

For my part, I revised these TPs and Subs rules to make interactions simpler between Subs, Destroyers, planes and TPs for tabletop games.
Your comments make me thinks about an alternate rules set which can be provided in addition to the OOB rules. New players can use it as a simpler intermediary or introductory step.

@Der:

@toblerone77:

Many of the newer OOB rules since revised in fact do not help the game for the more casual player and stretch the game out to the point where; if you can actually find a gamer willing to give it a go, you must use HRs in many cases to get them even close to playing the game again.

I absolutely agree! I think this subject - of general simplicity in Axis And Allies - is worthy of its own thread, so I will start one.

So, following this line of thinking to help introduce new players to a less complex naval combat interaction, I suggest this changes and tweak to simplify things and improve the impressionistic WWII depiction of Submarine warfare and Anti-Sub air cover and patrol to protect Transports and Convoys.

The second post of this thread is a transcription of OOB 1942.2 rules with corresponding changes suggested in this opening post. So, you can print them and see where these changes take place in the rulebook.

LIST of SIX small changes to help make unit interactions more consistent from a beginner POV:

Transport is treated as any other surface vessel when allocating casualty: each elligible transport unit worth 1 hit and can be chosen according to owner’s choice, whether before or after a combat unit has been selected as casualty.
OPTIONAL variant: Still worth 1 hit and Transports are taken as last casualties.

One or more friendly Transport units, sharing the same SZ, get a single defense die roll value of 1 per combat round.

Submarine cannot block unescorted Transport from amphibious landing.
Submarine and Transport cannot control SZ and can ignore each other in combat or noncombat move.

Submarine cannot hit, or be hit by, another submarine.

Destroyer does not block Submarine’s Surprise Strike.

But plane does not need Destroyer presence to hit unsubmerged Submarine.

IMPACTS of these changes:

No more defenseless Transport: TP get a combat value and can be taken as casualty the same way as other units.
Taken last can be an optional variant which is nearer OOB rule.

No combat value changes for Submarines or aircrafts with/without friendly or enemy Destroyer presence.
Aircrafts act the same as Cruiser, Carrier, Battleship when making attack or defense rolls against Submarines, except Subs still cannot hit aircrafts.

Since Submarine cannot harm enemy Sub, no fleet padding can rely solely on this cheapest unit.
Destroyer remains a must against Submarine and because Destroyer can hit aircrafts.

Submarine iconic Surprise Strike full capacity is counterbalanced by Transport illegibility as casualty and Sub inability to stop amphibious assault from lonely TPs.

WARSHIPS & TRANSPORT
Legend on unit capacities:
Unit type        Cost
Combat values
Special abilities

Submarine    6 IPCs
Attack 2 first strike*
Defense 1 first strike*
Move 2
Surprise strike: *Permanent first strike Attack 2 and Defense 1 against all surface vessels only, including Destroyers.
Submerge (instead of firing in Surprise strike phase)
Stealth Move
Unsubmerged Submarine unit can be hit by planes without any Destroyer (or Anti-Sub Vessel) presence.
Cannot hit planes nor submarines.
Cannot control SZ and can be ignored by other warship and Transport units.

Destroyer    8 IPCs
Attack 2
Defense 2
Move 2
Anti-Sub Vessel: One Destroyer unit blocks all Submarine’s Submerge and Stealth move.
Does not block Submarine’s Surprise Strike.

Transport    7 IPCs
Attack 0
Defense 1* per TPs group
Hit value: 1 Worth 1 hit and can be chosen as casualty anytime, same as warships.
Move 2
*Special Convoy Escort Defense: One single defense @1, each combat round for all friendly transports sharing SZ.
Cannot control SZ and can be ignored by other warship units.
Non-escorted Transport can make amphibious landing in Submarines infested SZ, (same rule as OOB first edition)
so Transport can ignore Submarine during Combat and Non-Combat phases, same as warships.

OPTIONAL Variant: Taken as last casualty, once all other illegible units has been chosen as casualty.

QUESTIONS:

Question 1: Do you believe that such units values can be simpler (less exemptional rules) and be used instead of OOB rules to make some baby steps toward a full OOB rules implementation?

Question 2: Is it still somewhat balanced in itself?

Question 3: Do you think that this 1 hit Transport with a small combat value is an easier rule to grasp for beginner?

Question 4: Do you think these six changes really improve WWII depiction of Submarine warfare and Anti-Sub air patrol to protect Transports and Convoys?

Remove heavy bombers technology and do the following

======================
Additional Ally advantages

Superfortress / USA starts with bombers (B-29 superfortress) that move at 8 spaces and have an attack value of 5. (only 1 roll per bomber)

Marines / USA player can designate all Infantry units (beginning of the turn) in one amphibious assault as Marines. Attack at 1-2. (artillery does not increase attack value)

Home Guard / UK player Infantry on the United Kingdom territory defend at 1-3.

Industry Movement / Soviet player may move one of his Industrial Complex units each turn at a rate of 1 movement point. (cannot move and produce on the same turn)

USSR economic penalty / (ally disadvantage) Allied forces occupied in the USSR or occupying USSR Territories prevents USSR from collecting IPCs from these territories. The reasoning behind this is the cost of feeding and caring for the foreign forces and also the cost of countering the anti-Communist political propaganda that these forces would introduce to the Soviet populace.

==================================
Additional Axis Advatages

Kamikaze / Japan player may move one Ftr per turn its full movement allowance and attacks at 1-4. Whether it survived the attack or not it is eliminated after the battle.

Panzerkorps / German player may designate one of his armour as SS Panzerkorps during each of his player-turns. May designate any Armour as SS at beginning of the turn. Attacks at 1-4 and defends at 1-5.

U-Boats / Germany builds these subs at 6 IPCs, but must be deployed in the Submarine Pens. Encourages Germany to expand its Navy

Submarine Pens / The territory of Germany has a built in Sub Pen. The Sub Pen works by giving shelter from air attack to Subs in the Baltic Sea Zone. New U-boats must be placed here.

Kiel Kanal / With this variant Germany can still move ships from the Baltic to the Atlantic to avoid the North Sea and UK waters. Must control Western Europe. Germany navy can avoid sea zone surrounding the UK. The Kanal counts as 1 movemnt space. And Axis must control Germany and Western Europe to use it.

Just like actual war, USA will be encourage to spend money to research A-Bomb tech and drop them over Japan with its superior bombers, or possibly Germany.