What do do with Germany

@Ichabod:

@PainState:

A lot of posters seemed stunned at this scenario, never scene it ever happen or even could happen. Now that I mulled it over last night and looked at the rules and so forth it is very obvious to me why no one has ever scene this scenario. Because the scenario makes no logical sense.

Italy DOW on Russia and moves in 2 tanks into Eastern Poland.
Russia is now at war with Italy and can DOW on Germany at the start of their next turn, turn 3.
Germany on Turn 3 does not DOW on Russia and just non combats into Eastern Poland.
Russia at the start of Turn 3 DOW on Germany and off we go.

There is no logical reason why Russia would not DOW on Germany at the start of Turn 3, none.

Heck you could argue that it makes no logical sense that Germany did not DOW on Russia at the start of G3 since Italy brought Russia into the war and Russia WILL DOW on Germany on R3.

Hi PainState,

From my perspective, if I was planning on doing a G3 Barbarossa AND I wanted to drive towards the south, then yes, it makes sense to not DOW. My stack will be together except for the minimum required mobile units and maybe 1 AAA in Poland so Russia doesn’t attack Poland to get their NO for occupying an Axis territory. But E. Poland will be real strong because the German air will be there and maybe bombers will also be in range of a raid on the Moscow factory. Also, 5 IPCs is more income than I’d probably get as Germany on the 1st turn.

There are a few disadvantages of course. 1, Russian blockers can’t be attacked. 2, the Scandinavian units are behind. But for me that’s ok, I just use them to lay siege anyways. I never expect to get Moscow on turn 6 anymore. I assume that the UK/Anzac and that lone French fighter are going to get to Moscow.Â

@AlphaAeffchen:

@ Kreuzfeld. You are totally right but the problem is if i do this buys for UK they can do nothing for many rounds in Europe. Italy gets very strong in the med. The USA have to fight Japan. The allies in Europe  are getting a problem because UK is isolatet because of only inf buy and USA has to Focus on Japan (but you are right i have to do this buy for UK).

In the scenario I made, US will only have to buy 2 bombers on US 1 (in most scenarios) and move 3 of the US planes to canada. They are capable of going towards Japan if Germany don’t buy the TTs in G2.

If germany doen’t buy 3 TTs on G1 (and save their money instead), I am doing taronto, and buy 6 inf and 1 ftr and lose no time in the Med. If they do buy 7 art on G1, I am buying a mIC in egypt and 5 inf in UK.

The only “loosing investments” UK has is : 3 inf instead of ftr on UK1, no taronto on UK 1 (I think 3 useless german transports might be too steep a price for germany to pay for this result).

The other losing investment is the canadian airbase and a few allied TTs on UK2/US2, however, they are more than offsett by the 9 german TTs that has to be bought to force me to do it.

The advantage I get for this plan is that no german should try for the sealion after US1, then that is just a lost game if they buy the 9 TTs. This means that I can (if I want to) send everything US builds against japan, including US turn 1 build. I am still taking Persia on UK1, so I can build the mIC on UK2 and shut down the middle east as fast as possible. My favourite way of playing the UK is to have 1 mIC in each of iran, iraq and egypt, and to use them to buy volumes of inf and mechs for a giant uk landarmy that can reach where i want them

I still think the game is favouring the axis, all I was commenting on was that in a J1, it is so much cheaper for the allied to prevent the sealion, so it will never happen.

Any time
Always fun to think and talk about A&A strategy, and tell others about what’s been learned from experience
Happy gaming to you and your buddies

3-5 bombers flying to london can be the difference between sea lion success and sea lion fail. It changes the odds drastically. Because Germany has to roll 3 more hits to win… which means more 2s to roll for the defender which means more 4s to roll as the battle drags on.

So yes sometimes Japan postpones war because of bomber purchases by USA.

G1:

Purchase - 30 IPC
1 CV
1 DD
1 SS

Combat:

SZ110:
1 BB via SZ112
All Aircraft less the Tac in Poland and the Ftr in Hungary

SZ106:
2 SS via SZ117 and SZ118

SZ91:
2 SS via SZ108 and SZ103

SZ109:
1 SS via SZ124

Normandy:
2 Inf/Art via Holland

France:
3 Arm S.Germany
4 Mech, 1 Art, 3 Inf via W.Germany
3 Arm, 2 Inf via Holland
1 Ftr via Hungary
1 Tac via Poland

Yugoslavia:
6 Inf, 2 Art via S.France
3 Arm via Poland, Hungary and Romania
2 Inf via Hungary
1 Inf via Romania

Only thing to realistically note about this move is that if you sink all the ships in SZ110 and the BB is remaining, retreat to SZ112.

NCM:

Finland:
1 Inf via Norway

Bulgaria:
1 Inf via Romania

SZ112:
1 CR via SZ114
1 TT w/ 2 Inf from Poland to Norway
2 Ftr via SZ110

W.Germany:
All remaining Aircraft from France and SZ110

Unit Placement:

Place 1 CV, 1 DD, 1 SS in SZ112

End Move

Notes about this opener:

I like this opener due to the fact that provided the SS score hits in both SZ106 and SZ91 that you effectively eliminate units into England via Canada and help Italy in the Med.  Further, your SS are in a location (SZ106 and 91) that if the DD in SZ109 survives, that the UK has to choose one of the two to hit.

Your fleet in SZ112 has the following in it:
1 CV (with 2 Ftr)
1 CR
1 DD
1 SS
1 TT

It also has the possibility of a tipped BB as well as 3 aircraft to scramble out of W.Germany.  This will most likely deter England from sending its SZ111 fleet against your fleet.  The preservation of your fleet in SZ112 is paramount to allowing for SS builds on G2 and G3 to keep England in a defensive posture until the US establishes a presence of a fleet in Europe.

In example, the UK is going to have to face multiple SS from varied locations and it does not have enough DD to address them all, which enables Germany to establish a convoy on SZ109 as early as G2.  This convoy will probably survive until the 4th round before the US and England can remove your SS and fleet and regain control of the Atlantic.  This is beneficial to enabling a march on Moscow if the Allies cannot just waltz in with TT once the US enters the war.  Further, for every SS you purchase at 6 IPC - England has to spend 8 IPC on a DD to attack it with.  This creates a 2 IPC per SS advantage for Germany on top of any Convoy damage England takes.

The drawback to this is that Germany will probably not make significant headway into Russia until G4 - but it also enables Japan to work its magic of getting China under control while establishing an AB in Northern China to fly in its entire starting Air Force in support of your delayed entrance into Russia.  Many Japanese players will not buy into this tactic, but from an Axis perspective, If Germany owns Moscow then the fight is for Egypt - which Japan can assist with via its fleet sailing PAST Calcutta and into the Med.  A combined Japanese/Italian move against Egypt is almost impossible to stop - especially if Germany is providing air cover out of W.Germany once Moscow falls.

@Axisplaya:

@theROCmonster:

Possibly even T3 if mistakes were made.

Anything is possible with enough mistakes from one side…

@theROCmonster:

Japs only need Hawaii, hong kong, phillipines, and calcutta. I can see Japan taking all these by T4

I can’t….If Japan can get Hong Kong, Phi, Haw and Ind by T4 when Allies don’t commit huge mistakes, then the game is completely broken.

I’ve not only seen it, I’ve done it.  The game is not completely broken - however.  America just has to keep investing in the Pacific, the allies lose if there is not a HUGE investment by America in the Pacific EARLY.

Axisplaya,

Thanks for the feedback…I have a board set and will model your conclusions.  In general, I play folks that understand efficiency and that for Russia, every defender is important.  At the same time, blocking a northern approach effectively and possibly interfering with German NOs is like having more defenders, in a sense.  I am not yet convinced it can be done but I will take your observations into account during planning.  It would really be great to stomp Finland and Norway with Russia… Just don’t know of it is doable…