Tech advancement PLZ Respond

@gen-manstein great, I look forward to see it.

I’m not sure yet lmao. Also I’m not sure if I want to do things like national objective which will also be a big factor. Also since the ussr was almost entirely industrialised, going through a massive famine, and a control economy, I’m thinking russia will also have to pay to keep his territories fed and maintained

Here is 6a of n for discussion of my Classic House Rules

I presented my original technology ideas as I had them back in the early 2000s. I do believe that some may find them outrageously overpowered. So, here are some nerfed, some down-powered technology ideas for presentation and review.

My Post 5 (New Research Rules - Outsmart your Enemies) explains how to research your technologies and Post 6 (New Research Tech for Classic) explains what you get when your research pays off. The technologies presented in Post 6 are quite aggressive. So, here in my Post 6a are some not-so-potent technologies. See Posts 5 and 6 for the how to get these technologies - this post is just about some potential technologies for my house rules that aren’t probably aren’t completely game-breaking.

Revised Research Results Chart

Theme - Tier 1 (Researched First) - Tier 2 (Unlocked After Tier 1 in Row
Flying - Rocket Power - Jet Power
Flying - Long Range Aircraft - Heavy Aircraft
Ground - Faster Trucks - Faster Tracks
Ground - Quick Firing Cannons - Radar Tracking
Industry - Reduce Waste - More Efficient Ways
Industry - Work Smarter - New Accounting
Naval - Better Naval Fuel - Super Subs
Naval - Post Treaty Ships - Bigger Holds

Research Results Explained

Flying Technologies
Row 1, Tier 1
Rocket Power - Allows use of Rockets (Range 3) as per the rules in the main Rule Book. Leads to Jet Power.
Row 1, Tier 2
Jet Power - Requires Rocket Power. Converts Fighters into Jet Fighters (A3/D5/M4, 6 with LRA/C10). Jet Fighters are as per the rules in the main Rule Book.
Row 2, Tier 1
Long Range Aircraft (LRA) - Increases aircraft and rocket ranges: (Jet) Fighters 6, Cargo Planes 8, and Bombers 8. Leads to Heavy Aircraft.
Row 2, Tier 2
Heavy Aircraft - Requires Long Range Aircraft. Converts Cargo Planes and Bombers to their Heavy versions: Heavy Cargo Planes and Heavy Bombers.
       Heavy Cargo Planes (A0/D0/M8/C12) may carry up to 2 Infantry, Paratroopers, or Troopers; or 1 AA Gun, Armor, Armored Cavalry, or Artillery. Only Paratroopers can attack in this way, all other units may only be moved as non-combat movement. Heavy Air Transports may reduce their load in order to travel further: Range 10 with 1 Infantry, Paratroopers, or Trooper; Range 12 when carrying nothing.
       Heavy Bomber (A(4x2)/D1/M8/C12) may attack by throwing three dice and taking the two desired results, which may be the loss of up to two enemy defenders. When Heavy Bombers do a Strategic Bombing Raid, damage done is equal to the top two of the three dice thrown, per Heavy Bomber. Heavy Bombers may reduce their load in order to travel further: Range 10 with 1 die of damage (throw two dice, select desired result); Range 12 when carrying nothing.

Ground Technologies
Row 1, Tier 1
Faster Trucks - Heavy Artillery and Infantry now move at 2. AA Guns, Paratroopers, and Troopers still only move at 1. Leads to Faster Tracks.
Row 1, Tier 2
Faster Tracks - Requires Faster Trucks. Armor and Armored Cavalry now move at 3; AA Guns and Troopers now move at 2. Paratroopers still only move at 1 (when not aboard their aireal chariots).
Row 2, Tier 1
Quick Firing Cannons - Heavy Artillery now attack and defend by throwing twice as many dice as formerly appropriate (two dice per Heavy Artillery). All hits landed by those dice hit ground units, up to the limit of enemy ground units in combat. Leads to Radar Tracking.
Row 2, Tier 2
Radar Tracking - Requires Quick Firing Cannons. AA Guns now defend by throwing twice as many dice as formerly appropriate (two dice per AA Gun). All hits landed by those dice hit flying units, up to the limit of enemy flying units in combat.

Industry Technologies
Row 1, Tier 1
Reduce Waste (Better Factories) - Reduces the cost to produce Ground units: -1/2 IPC (round up) for Armored Cavalry, Infantry, and Paratroopers; -1 IPC for all others (AA Gun, Armor, Artillery, Troopers). Leads to More Efficient Ways.
Row 1, Tier 2
More Efficient Ways (Better Plants) - Requires Reduce Waste. Reduces cost to produce all Air units and Sea units by 2.
Row 2, Tier 1
Work Smarter (Increased Capacity) - Doubles placement limits on territories with new Industrial Complexes. (e.g. Build factory in India (worth 3 IPC), now you can place up to 6 units in India with Work Smarter.) Leads to New Accounting.
Row 2, Tier 2
New Accounting (Increased Resources) - Requires Work Smarter. Receive additional income for every originally-owned territory that you have owned since the start of your turn - 1 additional IPC for every 2 IPC original value, rounded up. (By “originally-owned territory that you have owned since the start of your turn”, this refers to territories that you started the game with (such as Western Europe for Germany or Karelia for the USSR) and that are still in your possession - no extra money for territories you don’t control or for territories you have taken over since the start of the game.
Original IPC Value:  1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12
Additional Income:  1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4,  5,  6

Naval Technologies
Row 1, Tier 1
Better Naval Fuel (Faster Ships) - All ships now move at 3. Leads to Super Subs.
Row 1, Tier 2
Super Subs - Requires Better Naval Fuel. Converts all Submarines to Super Submarines (SSK). SSKs attack and defend at 3. Aircraft can only attack SSKs for 1 round, after which time SSKs are considered to be submerged and not attackable by aircraft. SSKs that are submerged may continue to attack or defend against ships in the same battle as the SSKs or may choose to break off contact and withdraw from battle.
Super Submarines (SSK) (A3/D3/M3/C8) Special Submerge ability
Row 2, Tier 1
Post Treaty Ships (Better Ships) - Converts Battleships (BB) and Cruisers (CA) into Heavy Battleships (BBB) and Battle Cruisers (CC). BBBs use 2 dice each for attack and defense. CCs attack at 4 and defend at 4 and gain the AAA value of BBs (AAA value at 1 against up to 2 planes per CC) (essentially, CAs become 1 hit BBs). Leads to Bigger Holds.
Heavy Battleship (BBB) (A4(x2)/D4(x2)/M2/C20) AAA value of 1 vs. 2 planes/2 Hit Ship
Battle Cruiser (CC) (A4/D4/M2/C12) AAA value of 1 vs. 2 planes/1 Hit Ship
Row 2, Tier 2
Bigger Holds (Bigger Ships) - Requires Post Treaty Ships. Converts Aircraft Carriers (CV) and Transports (AKA) into Large Carriers (CVB) and Large Transports (AKB). CVBs can carry 3 Fighters or 1 Bomber. AKBs can carry 5 foot units, 2 mech units, or 1 mech and 3 foot units.
Large Carrier (CVB) (A1/D3/M2/C16/2 Hit Ship) (Carry 3 Fighters or 1 Bomber)
Large Transport (AKB) (A0/D1/M2/C8/1 Hit Ship) (Carry 5 foot or 2 mech or 1 mech and 3 foot)

And these are my down-powered technology results.

-Midnight_Reaper

I’ve played some games where we roll for a free tech which seems like a good way to get tech into the game.  I’m a fan of this idea.

@vodot said in [AA50 & AA42.2] Fixed Cost Techs + Tech Expansion:

This is a work in progress, but I’m putting it out here for ideas and feedback if anyone is interested in geeking out on something like this.

This is an expanded list of techs with fixed costs (no more die rolls) that would simply come into effect immediately (unless otherwise specified) for the cost shown. Some of these have a cost of 5 IPCs, with the intention of simply enabling what are essentially house rules/new units (Mechanized Infantry, Cheaper Naval units, rudimentary dogfight rules, etc.) while allowing players with no interest/need for them to ‘opt out’ and save the 5 IPCs. I’ll be using this list for my next solo game and will be making adjustments.

Note: The ‘Turkish Pact’ tech is designed for games where the Turkish Straits begin the game closed (via house rule), but also works for games where the straits start open as per OOB rules (in which case, upon the development of ‘Turkish Pact’ they would cease to be a special case of “Always Open” straits and revert to the normal OOB straits rules (closed to units unfriendly to the controller of Turkey).

Fixed_cost_Tech_v2.xls

SIR, THIS IS PURE GOLD! :)

@barney:

yea I’m a little concerned this would boost the defensive values of fleets even more. I also added DK’s cruiser gets one AA shot which is another defensive bonus.
I wonder how much super subs would counter that? I’m trying not to tweak things price wise at the moment but I may eventually incorporate your entire cost structure.

Good explanation on the destroyers vs EC’s. Having a fighter that hits at 4 could be appealing though.

Good stuff Baron

If I introduced AAA Naval capacity at such low cost (Advanced Shipyard) it would be in a combined arms bonus and not for a single unit.
Maybe just up to 2 AAA preemptive shots against 2 planes when 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser are protecting a Fleet Carrier, and only this kind of unit, not any Escort Carrier.
Each have their specific mission, Fleet Carrier have a more consistent AA batteries and CAP (Carrier Air Patrol) while Escort Carrier groups were assign Anti-Sub Mission.
So, to get Naval AAA buy all the three warships: Battleship, Cruiser, Aircraft (Fleet) Carrier.
In counterpart, these costlier warships units would still be vulnerable against Subs while Escort Carriers and Destroyers will be vulnerable against planes but much able to defend against Submarines.

@Black_Elk:

@Baron:

I’m more inclined to treat it exactly as an AAA unit: @1 against up to three planes.
After all, it is a known concept in ground combat adapted to Naval Battle and it requires 3 warships type, the number 3 is obviously on the board.
IC’s AAA seems too powerful and unrealistic: a defense @1 against infinite number of planes.
Defending Carriers are already much better than offensive ones. Anti-Air is providing an additional defense.

@Black_Elk:

Well the anti air for battlegroup concept seems cool. I think the hope was that we could find a combined arms that just had units pairing 1:1. That one requires a pairing of 3 different units 1:1:1, but seems like it could encourage Cruiser purchases.

Not only Cruiser but also Battleship buying incentive.
Another reason to not give IC’s AAA capacity: you want to defend against more than 3 planes, buy another Cruiser and BB to join another Carrier.
I’m pretty sure it can change some buying from Destroyers and Subs to Cruiser and Battleship.

It still cost 12+16+20= at least 48 IPCs (68 with 2 Fgs) to get this additional defensive abilities.

Maybe this concept can be simply extended to each combo of BB+Cruiser gives 1 AAA capacity as long as there is a Carrier to protect.

So 2 BBs + 2 Cruisers + 1 Carrrier will provides an AAA against up to 6 planes.

All this!  :-D

I think something along these lines could potentially bring both Cruisers and Battleships back into the mix as a purchasing consideration, and is relatively simple.

Of the combined arms proposed thus far, this one doesn’t bust the opening round combats. It would increase the swing on fleet defense making all out air assaults against a stacked battle group more risky. Right now the all air option is pretty powerful vs navies, this would give at least some way to counter that, but only at the cost of more expensive warship units, and somewhat diminished flexibility in other ways, since you have to keep the ships together to get the boost.
I still think a different bombardment bonus or marine concept could work for cruisers and battleships, or a maneuverability bonus for cruisers specifically, but both of those would surely have an influence on the opening balance.

yeah, the 3 fighter carrier is awesome, the defence capabilities are astounding and the saving of not having to buy a third carrier is great,

fast cruisers are another strategic element that can rescue a developing onslaught and stall the advance, they can be kept with the fleet and the players that have not developed fast cruisers have to plan around the fact that the cruiser range has increased, 2 fleets of fast cruisers at the pacific is devestating

Also, damaged battleships shouldn’t be repaired until the start of the owner’s next turn.  It’s stupid that Brition can damage it, America can damage it and Russia can damage it all in the same round and it doesn’t sink when normally 2 hits kills it.