Four battleship counter

@Ruanek:

It’s interesting, then, that both of you have apparently agreed the whole time but still had to argue over it.

Welcome to Axis and Allies (dot) Org.  :wink:

We do, however, disagree as to the degree of involvement in China.  I don’t think Japan should be overly concerned with China until India and Australia are down, Gargantua seems to want Japan to be very concerned in the affairs of China regardless of how India or Australia are going (assuming a typical game, in which those two nations might never fall or might be little more than a nuissance.)  Assumed that if China got miraculous dice the situation might change.  Likewise, if India is sitting there with a 200 IPC fleet, Japan might suddenly get more interested in it. (aka: non-typical game.)

Well if you deal with Sydney/Calcutta, but evac China leaving Shanghai to the Chinese along with Manchuria/Jehol/etc, and they are pushing out 29 IPCs worth of units directly in Shanghai each round, it’s game over for Japan.  I have seen Jennifer post an evacuate China tactic before and it’s a terrible idea.  I think she’s way too caught up in the IPC value of units and forgets that positioning and tactics supercede everything.

In my opinion, doing either of the following leads to disaster:

1. Going all out and trying to take over all of China.
2. Totally ignoring China and expecting to head back later and take back Shanghai.

I like to try to kill 3-6 Chinese units every round, basically matching their builds, and limiting them to an IPC value of 8 or less.

Gargantua seems to want Japan to be very concerned in the affairs of China regardless of how India or Australia are going

Actually if you read anything I have said, I’m not advocating that at all.

I’m advocating exactly what shadowguidex is saying, and his position, is the correct play to make.

Taking and holding Yunnan IS the integral component of this strategy.

Of course, if I get good luck (haha, never with the Axis do I have good luck) and have the chance to put the dagger into China’s heart, I take it.

Yunnan is important, but I’ll take any of the Burma Road territories, most especially India itself.  I’m not going to leave forces to get obliterated in Yunnan by Chinese or British troops just because it’s on the Burma Road though.

Much like the rest of the game, positioning and finesse dictate a lot.  China requires some finesse to maximize results while minimizing forces required to achieve that success.  The best players fully understand this balance - and don’t get caught up in predetermined tactics or requiring themselves to commit to a 135 IPC Army (entirely arbitrary number) because that’s what they predetermined is necessary - that sort of talk is just ridiculous.

I have to agree with shadowguidex and Gargantua on this.  You can’t leave China alone, but you don’t have to totally wipe them out either.  That can come later after other, more prosperous objectives and more dangerous threats are dealt with.  I have seen games where Japan either totally left China alone or simply tried to guard the coastal territories.  After a few rounds, China built up a lot of infantry with a few artillery thrown in.  They took back the coastal territories and had too many men there for Japan to get back on the mainland.  Then again, I have seen games where Japan expended a lot of men and equipment to wipe China out.  Only problem was it gained them only 12 IPCs and Japan had too many threats from India, ANZAC and USA to counter.

I like the idea of hitting China on a limited basis, enough to cost them about whatever they build, and taking a territory here and there.  Taking Yunnan is cruicial, but usually as a stepping stone to Burma, then India.  If you can do it quick enough, with a little help from naval landings, you will usually take Calcutta.  Then you can go back and mop up the rest of the Chinese.

To follow on Knp’s post.  I’ve seen games where Japan left China, moved heavy into Russia from 2 angles,(the north and just south of Mongolia) and helped in a 1-2-3 on Moscow and won the game!

Again, Axis win by either VC’s on the Europe board or Pacific board.  If you plan on winnning in the pacific, then you should NOT retreat from China.  If you plan on winning in Europe then by all means evacuate the Pacific and drive hard on Moscow.  Your fleet can move to the Indian ocean to drop their ipcs.

@JimmyHat:

To follow on Knp’s post.   I’ve seen games where Japan left China, moved heavy into Russia from 2 angles,(the north and just south of Mongolia) and helped in a 1-2-3 on Moscow and won the game!

Again, Axis win by either VC’s on the Europe board or Pacific board.  If you plan on winnning in the pacific, then you should NOT retreat from China.  If you plan on winning in Europe then by all means evacuate the Pacific and drive hard on Moscow.  Your fleet can move to the Indian ocean to drop their ipcs.

They also win by surrender.

I’ve won games where China had 30 Infantry, 25 Artillery and a Fighter in China and I only had Korea, FIC, Malaya, Sham State and India on the mainland.  (No, I did not have San Francisco or Pearl Harbor.  I did, however, have a Japanese tank in Moscow.)

@JimmyHat:

To follow on Knp’s post.   I’ve seen games where Japan left China, moved heavy into Russia from 2 angles,(the north and just south of Mongolia) and helped in a 1-2-3 on Moscow and won the game!

Again, Axis win by either VC’s on the Europe board or Pacific board.  If you plan on winnning in the pacific, then you should NOT retreat from China.  If you plan on winning in Europe then by all means evacuate the Pacific and drive hard on Moscow.  Your fleet can move to the Indian ocean to drop their ipcs.

Yes, based upon your chosen strategy you can employ a full Russian headlong charge, and drive through China without really bothering to deal with the Chinese units, this is certainly a viable tactic and it’s worked for me a few times.

My biggest problem is the overreaching comments that makes one strategy “THE” strategy that MUST be employed, which is what too many people on here keep trying to do.  This game is too vast to create a one-size-fits-all strategy that will work for you most of the time - that’s foolish.  The best players will change their tactics each game and keep the enemy guessing.  If they’ve seen you do strategy X five times in a row, then they should learn and adapt and crush you next time.  There is NO strategy that works better than 50% of the time, in my opinion, so achieving success more than 50% of the time requires creative and varied strategies.

You will not be good at this game if you continually do the same thing every time you play the game - that worked and worked well with other versions of A&A, but not this one.  I recommend developing 3-5 different strategies that are viable, and changing up your approach each time.  Keep your enemy guessing, it’ll be your best advantage.  Nothing more fun than a G6/G7 Sealion that went totally unnoticed in planning until you plop down the transports with money you’ve saved for a round and a half.

Be flexible, watch the board, and don’t try to SEVERELY over-analyze things.  When I see comments like “You need at least 144 IPCs worth of units to successfully accomplish X” I laugh out loud.

Good hunting.

Just to add to my own comments - I’ve been MUCH more successful doing Sealion on games where I didn’t telegraph a Sealion move on G1.  I captured UK once when I build mostly INF and ART on G1.  UK built units in Africa and moved their fleet into the Med.  I sensed a possibility and saved some of my G2 money and built more land units.  UK again didn’t shore up their capital, so on G3 I built 4 transports and took UK on G4, while still having a massive land force to crush Russia.

It was all positioning, opportunity, and tactics.  I feinted in the Med, allowed UK to seize a perceived advantage, and hit them where they didn’t expect.

@shadowguidex:

It was all positioning, opportunity, and tactics.

The 3 most important elements of the game (not counting luck with the dice ;)  )

Luck is when preparation meets oppurtunity.

@shadowguidex:

@JimmyHat:

To follow on Knp’s post.   I’ve seen games where Japan left China, moved heavy into Russia from 2 angles,(the north and just south of Mongolia) and helped in a 1-2-3 on Moscow and won the game!

Again, Axis win by either VC’s on the Europe board or Pacific board.  If you plan on winnning in the pacific, then you should NOT retreat from China.  If you plan on winning in Europe then by all means evacuate the Pacific and drive hard on Moscow.  Your fleet can move to the Indian ocean to drop their ipcs.

Yes, based upon your chosen strategy you can employ a full Russian headlong charge, and drive through China without really bothering to deal with the Chinese units, this is certainly a viable tactic and it’s worked for me a few times.

My biggest problem is the overreaching comments that makes one strategy “THE” strategy that MUST be employed, which is what too many people on here keep trying to do.  This game is too vast to create a one-size-fits-all strategy that will work for you most of the time - that’s foolish.  The best players will change their tactics each game and keep the enemy guessing.  If they’ve seen you do strategy X five times in a row, then they should learn and adapt and crush you next time.  There is NO strategy that works better than 50% of the time, in my opinion, so achieving success more than 50% of the time requires creative and varied strategies.

You will not be good at this game if you continually do the same thing every time you play the game - that worked and worked well with other versions of A&A, but not this one.  I recommend developing 3-5 different strategies that are viable, and changing up your approach each time.  Keep your enemy guessing, it’ll be your best advantage.  Nothing more fun than a G6/G7 Sealion that went totally unnoticed in planning until you plop down the transports with money you’ve saved for a round and a half.

Be flexible, watch the board, and don’t try to SEVERELY over-analyze things.  When I see comments like “You need at least 144 IPCs worth of units to successfully accomplish X” I laugh out loud.

Good hunting.

Yeah, that’s one of the things I love about Global.  My brother doesn’t like it because it has an element of luck (the dice), but I think that’s what helps to define a good player.  With no luck involved a player can just pick a strategy at the beginning and follow through with little or no deviation.  With the dice that A&A adds, a player can demonstrate true strategy by reacting to those unexpected losses and seizing the opportunity in those unexpected victories.  And with the complexity and distance Global adds there isn’t a surefire great strategy that should be at least attempted every game.

There is no ONE strategy.  If your enemy refuse to defend DC, then KAF is my strategy.  If you build as much as you can in S. Africa, Sea Lion is my strategy.

but there’s 1 thing i don’t get
someone said india has to be taken to minimalize its defences
why don’t you just block india itself?
they’ll get max an inf (west india + burma) a round
for 1 inf a round extra, i’d use all avaible land units and kill china. usually when holding yunnan and combining north forces you could do the trick
i usually use just 2 land units from japan to kill it (stacking yunnan)
but i’m not sure if i’d use the thai forces aswell

Frontovik,

If you plan to be able to win with Japan, you will most likely need India to get enough Victory Cities.  Therefore, it is in your best interest to do so before they have turns to build up.  The same is true for Australia.  The difference really is that India has a major complex and thus can build up much faster than India can.  It is not rare to see India with 20-30 infantry around turn 5 or 6.  However, by turn 2 or 3 they have half that and are much easier to knock down.

Almost every Stat. works when you roll real good dice it’s when they dont go your way and you have to change because your winning game just turned into a losing game
  the forum is good because you can see a wider range of strat.'s
  I would go with the 3 subs to a BB purchase, also the Carrier and planes sounds good