G40 Tourney Discussion/question(s)

So we are not going into round 2 until around Halloween, right?  I assume we will do a new round of bidding?

Also, I have no objection with using alpha 3 or this new SBR rule in round 2, although in my opinion it favors the allies even more than alpha 2.

I have to say, all these changes (some if which are improvements) I don’t think fundamentally alter the basic imbalance with the game, which favors the allies.  The ONLY change I think that would considerably rebalance the game would be to push out the time limit of when the USSR and US can enter the war, say to round 5 and 6 respectively. After all, the USSR wasn’t going to be ready to attack until 42, and the likelyhood of the US entering the war at all was contingent on Axis provocation and not just crossing some made up time limit.

@Cmdr:

@BigBadBruce:

@Cmdr:

Any dmg shuts down the facility until the facility is repaired. (So no more sitting there with 7 dmg on your Major Complex and building 3 units a round.)

Please could you point out, in Larry’s page where you see such rule? I couldn’t find anything regarding that you have to have 0 DMG on Major IC in order to produce units.

Yes, page 1:

The target is considered inoperable if it receives any hits. It can be repaired by paying 1 IPC for the removal of each chip. This is done during the players next Purchase & Repair phase 1.
The maximum damage a major IC can receive is 20 damage markers. Minor ICs and bases can’t receive more than 6 damage markers each.

Any damage to Major Complexes, Minor Complexes, Naval Bases and/or Air Bases shut down the facility unless repaired to 0 Damage.  He has since added a second option for Major Complexes, but has added the “being considered” disclaimer.  If that becomes official, it is official.

Sorry, I don’t see what you say in that page : http://harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=6149&sid=e72b40b4cde63e93f165dfa6eb16b97d

So I guess it’s another

Because I should never have discussed proposed changes before they were officially added, so it was my mistake to even introduce them.

Jenn, Jenn, Jenn… you first talk about AA Gun, then about interceptors… not easy to follow. Is it a real rule of Alpha 3 you’re talkking about now, or another of your wish list?

Could you read them rules, please BBB?  Because you are confusing the hell out of people by making unqualified claims and throwing clear rules into doubt.

SBR

Air Battle.
All escorts and bombers (Strategic & Tactical) fires @ 1
Jets fires @ 2

Generated casualties are placed behind the casualty line and will return fire before being eliminated.

Interceptors. fires @ 1
Jet interceptors fires @ 2

All casualties, both sides, are removed.
Surviving escorts retreat.

Bombing Run
Bombers are assigned to targets.
Strategic bombers can be assigned to any target (IC’s, naval bases. airbase).
Tactical bombers can be assigned only to naval bases and airbases.

Each targeted facility fires @ 1, each can fire one time at each bomber that is attacking it.
All casualties at both stages of the raid are chosen by the owners of the units involved.

Bombs Away
Strategic bombers roll a 1d6+2
Tactical bombers roll a 1d6

Damage Report

The damage to the target (hits) is equal to the total number rolled on the die/dice. Place 1 gray chip (damage marker) under the target for each hit scored.

Option #1The target is considered inoperable if it receives any hits. It can be repaired by paying 1 IPC for the removal of each chip. This is done during the players next Purchase & Repair phase 1.
The maximum damage a major IC can receive is 20 damage markers. Minor ICs and bases can’t receive more than 6 damage markers each.

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=6491

I don’t think it gets much clearer than that.  I understand you are having issues finding it since you are in a defunct thread.  He started new ones for ISSUES to be fixed, SBR questions and CONVOY questions.  Those are the only three “active” threads atm.

Anyway, yes, it does not matter (currently) if you have 1 dmg on a facility, if you don’t repair it, you cannot use it at all.  It applies to Naval Bases, Air Bases, Minor Factories and Major Factories.  There’s no doubt in his intent, the doubt is only in the issue of balance.

To clarify (and it has been clarified, but to save you time going through pages of posts):  7 Damage to a Major Factory requires 7 repair to use the factory AT ALL.  You cannot just repair enough to place your builds, you either fix it entirely, or it is out of commission.

Convoys:  All warships and planes IN THE SPECIFIC CONVOY SEA ZONE must attack convoys.  For each “hit” one damage is taken.  You “hit” with a three or less. (ie, a 1, 2 or 3.)  Submarines fire two shots, aircraft carriers fire zero shots.  Any fighters or tactical bombers that happen to be on aircraft carriers that are in enemy convoy zones may also roll to see if they do convoy damage.

Dog Fighting Rules:

Interceptors, Bombers and Escorts all fire at 1.  All hits are removed.
AA Guns fire at 1 for each bomber attacking.  All hits are removed.
Tactical Bombers do 1d6 damage to their Air/Naval Base.
Strategic Bombers do 1d6+2 damage to their Air/Naval Base or Minor/Major Complex.

It’s really simple.  There’s no 2’s or things being killed before it can return fire, or anything.  It’s a straight up dogfight now.

Convoy Rules:  http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=6492

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=25073.new#new

There is a copy paste of the new SBR rules and new Convoy Rules.  Last two posts respectively.

The first three posts are a copy of all Alpha 3 core rules to include changes to technology, game board set up, etc, etc, etc.  Basically, all the stuff he posted weeks ago.

Well, you don’t have an history that gives credibility and having to look at multiple pages/sites is not my defintion of a clear set of rules.

Anyway, Alpha 3 not for me… have fun.

2 Votes against, 2 votes for.

(It’s not all that hard to find the rules, I put them all in one thread for you with links to Larry’s actual posts on his page.  If Larry does not have any credibility for you, then maybe you need to go play Risk or Chess, he is the game creator after all.)

So Alpha 3 is still being tinkered with?

I’m out as well.

@jim010:

So Alpha 3 is still being tinkered with?

I’m out as well.

No idea if it is being tinkered with.

Almost every response from Larry now is “bite me” so maybe he’s done?

Actually, I’m just out.

Alpha 2 may as well be buried with the dinosaurs, and Alpha 3 just isn’t ready.

If I vote, then it is for OOB with a bid.  It is still technically the official rule set.

Seems like since this is an A2 tournament and A3 is still being updated, see the green dates some September some October, I say save alpha 3 for a raining day, maybe next year in fact. Personally, I’m not sure I even want to play A3 for fun, its so fundamentally changed, that its taking the simple cool things like convoy raiding and making them work…no predictability, more dicey then A2 as a result. The NO’s are changed, the Neutrals are tinkered with, SBR is messed with. I prefer a game that is less dice as close to chess as possible but a little variability is fine. This is just getting to bogged down, and quite frankly too much bookkeeping. Trying to figure out your opponents reactions just adds more time to each turn face to face suffers greatly, forum play is painstaking now with all the extra typing, the extra delays due to turn order changes, (France should be moved to after USSR imo for easy posting).

In short, I vote A2.

I vote A3.

Okay, looks like a significant portion of the participants want to stick with Alpha 2 for the next round.

If BOTH players decide they want to go with Alpha 3 instead, then you may use Alpha 3.  Otherwise, you must use Alpha 2.

I’m gonna vote Alpha 2 as well.  If Alpha 3 gets more settled then it may be worth a look later on.  I agree with James, there are a suprising number of fundamental changes to the basic game rules in Alpha 3.  Alpha 2 is probably the best set up so far… a bid can even it out.  It is kind of lame that Sea Lion is so easy in Alpha 2, but it does not guarantee an Axis win.  There are some tourny games that show that the Allies can still win after a successful Sea Lion.

If the players make a gentlemen’s agreement to use Alpha 3, I don’t see a problem with that either.  I know there have been some issues with rule clarity, format, and players dropping with this tournament, but I think overall it has been very fun so far and I think players should not get too uptighht about this rule set or that.  This is our hobby because it is fun. G40 is an excellent format; we can work with the rule varients and keep the tourny moving.

Agreed.  We can have an Alpha 3 tournament next year (unless it’s Alpha +6 by then).  The Global 1940 league will almost certainly be based on Alpha 3, again, unless Larry makes some weird decision that I cannot foresee.

For now, if the two players agree and post in the opening round that they want to play Alpha 3 instead of Alpha 2, I will assume they are using the Alpha 3 ruleset as printed prior to the date of the first round.  (So being Larryed won’t screw up a perfectly good strategy because of a fundamental shift in some game aspect.)

Gotta vote Alpha 2.  I’m just finally learning these rules… don’t change them on me now.

Cmdr Jennifer,

It looks like there are only 5 games left in round 1.  Now that the rule set issue seems settled, any chance we can get the pairings set for Round 2 so we can at least place a bid and know who we are facing and which side we will be?

Seems we are one spot short for a full winners bracket as there were only 15 games, right? Maybe we take the loser from Round 1 who got the most rounds in before conceding to go ahead and play in the winner’s bracket spot for the 8th game.

As far as the 2nd chance bracket, we probably need people to “opt in” there because several people seemed to have dropped from the tourny all together, but I think we should still have one as we advertised it as a double elimination.  There may not be 16 players for it, but there will probably be at least 8.

@DutchmanD:

Maybe we take the loser from Round 1 who got the most rounds in before conceding to go ahead and play in the winner’s bracket spot for the 8th game.

This makes no sense. Some players would have kept playing their game if they had known this…Plus, it encourages players to always keep playing as long as they can for future rounds(and in Global, finishing to the end a player can take some weeks in play by forum).

If we are to get a player from the losers bracket, then i propose we:
1- Ask officially who’s interested
2- leave a few days for everyone to get a chance to read it
3- give a number to each player and publicly roll a dice to see which one won the lottery.

The bracket, at least for the winners, will go with winner of game one vs winner of game two, etc.  So you should at least be able to trash talk your opponent.

I’ll open bids for round 2 next Friday (28 October).  I have some real life concerns that will be resolved on Thursday.

To fill the missing spot, anyone who lost round 1 that wants to continue may PM me.  I’m not sure we have enough players for a redemption bracket so we may not have one.  I’ll collect the PMs, list out the constestants and figure out some way to D6 roll for who gets the spot. (Course, a D20 might be better, if only the site supported it!)