Map sea zones clarification

@Ichabod:

@PainState:

A lot of posters seemed stunned at this scenario, never scene it ever happen or even could happen. Now that I mulled it over last night and looked at the rules and so forth it is very obvious to me why no one has ever scene this scenario. Because the scenario makes no logical sense.

Italy DOW on Russia and moves in 2 tanks into Eastern Poland.
Russia is now at war with Italy and can DOW on Germany at the start of their next turn, turn 3.
Germany on Turn 3 does not DOW on Russia and just non combats into Eastern Poland.
Russia at the start of Turn 3 DOW on Germany and off we go.

There is no logical reason why Russia would not DOW on Germany at the start of Turn 3, none.

Heck you could argue that it makes no logical sense that Germany did not DOW on Russia at the start of G3 since Italy brought Russia into the war and Russia WILL DOW on Germany on R3.

Hi PainState,

From my perspective, if I was planning on doing a G3 Barbarossa AND I wanted to drive towards the south, then yes, it makes sense to not DOW. My stack will be together except for the minimum required mobile units and maybe 1 AAA in Poland so Russia doesn’t attack Poland to get their NO for occupying an Axis territory. But E. Poland will be real strong because the German air will be there and maybe bombers will also be in range of a raid on the Moscow factory. Also, 5 IPCs is more income than I’d probably get as Germany on the 1st turn.

There are a few disadvantages of course. 1, Russian blockers can’t be attacked. 2, the Scandinavian units are behind. But for me that’s ok, I just use them to lay siege anyways. I never expect to get Moscow on turn 6 anymore. I assume that the UK/Anzac and that lone French fighter are going to get to Moscow.Â

@cyanight:

That might be the reason Harris designed it so the Flying Tigers stay in the mainland of China. If Hainan was labeled a Chinese territory then the whole rule on transports could become an issue as well as the Flying Tiger being able to attack units in seazones. The way the game is setup the plane is penned inside of China with the exception of Burma and Kwangtung.And if the Chinese could load onto transports it would be easy to use them with USA since their turns are back to back.

Good theory – that may very well be the explanation.  I’d always wondered why Hainan was incorrectly represented on the game map (from the point of view of which territories were Chinese when Japan started conquering them in 1931).  Formosa and Korea I could understand, since China ceded Formosa to Japan under the 1895 Treaty of Shimonoseki and recognized Korean independence (which proved to be short-lived, since the Russians and the Japanese both had territorial ambitions there) under the same treaty.

Note that I play 2nd edition. I don’t know how this compares to alpha+3.

The first thing that I look out for with the UK, is what is Germany doing? IF a serious sea-lion is posed, I move every available ship from the UK med-fleet (and the french if they survive) to Gibraltar, as well as every ratty old plane the UK has in the med. This requires removal of the Italian TRS+DD in SZ96 in the 2nd edition.
With this move and smart builds in London, Sea Lion will fail miserably. Italy on the other hand will be stronger in Africa but you can’t have both London and Cairo. Rest assured that you will take back the latter, if Italy takes it at all. If Germany continues on the Sea Lion Path, all the Gibraltar stuff moves north to fight Germans, who will fail, Russia will roll over Germany and it is game over very quickly for the Axis. EVEN if Lucky dicerolls hands them over London they will not be able to stop the Russians anymore because they will loose too much in the battle of London… Unless they roll SO DAMN Lucky that they manage to keep all their Luftwaffe + take London with their last tank  :roll:
If Germany does NOT continue with Sea Lion (you can tell by their production), move the Gibraltar stuff + STR and FTR from London back into Africa, ending the Italian dreams there with moderate effort.

If Germany never poses/feighns a Sea-Lion threat, do a ‘Taranto’ or ‘Tobruk’ UK1. The specifics vary from the preferences from player to player but in general it comes down to attack as much Italian ships (or its units in Tobruk) with as much of your air/ships.
Personally I prefer to kill all Italian ships in SZ96 and SZ97 with all UK-ships that can get to them plus all aircraft that can get there. Note that the STR in London can get there and land in Malta as well as 2 FTR from London that can land on the CV if necessary. I personally take ships (even the CV) as losses, and land all surviving aircraft (which should very well be all) in Malta, but this may also differ according to your preferences.

If you fear/don’t know how to handle a ‘surprise Sea Lion’ from the Germans, seriously consider to consolidate around Gibraltar UK1, doing ‘Taranto’ (sort of) UK2. Taranto is most effective UK1 but loses not much of its effect if executed UK2.

Good luck and have fun playing!

The allies can always make sealion next to impossible if they really set their mind to it (UK build infantry, no Taranto, bring ships home, get Canadians, prepare US airstrike).  If they do everything in their power to make it costly and Germany still goes for it, then Germany will be in bad shape after the sealion “victory”.  In that case, losing London is bad but not necessarily a total disaster.  Suppose the opponents don’t really like playing Japan and they’re not very good at it.  As long as USA, USSR and remnant of UK can hold the line against germany, the axis are placed in the crummy position of having to win as Japan.  In that case, it might actually be preferable to intentionally allow a (costly) sealion in order to put the onus on Japan.  If its a team game and the guy playing Germany is more skilled than the guy playing Japan, then coaxing them into a costly sealion might work out OK for the allies.

Just as a side note Make_It_Round, in alpha if you had a Japanese sub in the sz he couldn’t do an amphib w/transports only. This would force him to bring in surface ship(s) to escort the transports. Then you could use your sub & kami’s to try and sink his surface ship(s) if he still does the amphib. You probably only have a destroyer as a target, but hey makes him think.

Hi All!

In my preparation I always loved having the old setup maps (made by Krieg I believe). As there hasn’t been one availabble for any of the versions after AA50, I decided to make one myself. It has been monkswork (as we say in Holland ). And having one, I asked myself: “Why not sharing it with all of you?”

So: Enjoy!!

SvO

http://www.mediafire.com/?esmhrshz6sjjkk5

@suprise:

Page 18 of the Euro rule book and page 16 of the Pacific rule book
  My interp. of this is 1 sub, 1 carr with 2 planes. the sub gets a hit what happens …… the carr is tipped and the planes are in the air  if the sub does not fire a second shot then the planes need to land within their movement allowance. If you had 2 subs and they both hit then the carr would go down  I would say the planes would get away because subs cant hit air units
  Those two pages answer the Q’s for me

The movement allowance is only one when defending. The planes would need to land on an adjacent island, coastal tt, or friendly carrier w/room on board.

@Dark_Destroyer:

The Russian player needs a destroyer to lift you from the convoy zone because you have a sub there.  Submerged sub in a convoy zone works.

“Submerging” is a term that can occur only in a battle as an option for Submarines to “retreat” while remaining in place.  After the battle is over, they are no longer considered “submerged”.  “Submerging” has no bearing at all in any other turn phase.

In addition, if you have any warship in a convoy zone during the collect income phase of the enemy’s turn (that controls territories adjacent to the convoy zone) they deduct their income REGARDLESS of whether they, or ANY another ally, have ships in that zone.  Japan could, for example, mobilize as many ships as they wanted in seazone 6 but it would NOT prevent convoy interdiction if an Allied power had ships in that space.