Transport Move, then mount and unmount

@BigBlocky:

Here is an example of combat and non-combat that some won’t agree with, and I I’m not sure I do.

**Scenario:…

I agree with your interpretation of the rules here. This is the only way to load and unload in a single turn IMHO, although the twist with the sub makes me feel slightly uncomfortable, but then… you can move tanks through a freshly conquered area to reinforce some other area, so that is pretty much the same.**

So F_alk, you and I both agree on the rule intrepretation yet, nobody else in the world does. Now what?

BB

I will join the ranks of the few and agree to these rules. Reading and rereading the rules has more or less convinced me that that is how the tr. should move. It will slow the USA down, evening things out a bit. And it helps explain why it is so important to have the blow-up boxes to signify whether or not the cargo is still on the tr or has been unloaded (am I making any sense?)
It might screw the japs a bit on their front, but only until they learn to keep their tr. off the coast of Japan.

So it´s agreed that a tr. CANNOT load and unload during non-combat, NO MATTER WHAT!?

But can it load during combat, if it´s not going to be combat? No, you can´t. P.12: “In this part of the sequence, you move your units into land territories or sea zones occupied by enemy units to engage in combat.” The units HAVE to engage in combat. If you load inf onto a tr then either the inf or the tr have to engage in combat. So there!

On page 26 the rules clearly show an example of a Japanese tran load move and unload during noncombat. I feel the move, move, bridge during noncombat is still murky.

@BigBlocky:

So F_alk, you and I both agree on the rule intrepretation yet, nobody else in the world does. Now what?

We can keep to annoy the rest of the world with being smart-asses :D…

But wasn’t there some club FAQ that was reading the rules “our way” as well? Not that it is important…

From the rules page 16
“A trn can pick up cargo, move 1 or 2 sz, and unload the cargo all in the same move. THE CARGO CAN BE PICKED UP BEFORE, DURING OR AFTER THE TRANSPORT MOVES.”

So what can a trn do during non-combat?

1. It can pick up cargo
2. It can move
3. It can unload (ends the turn)

All those statements above are always true. There is nothing in the rules that states that if you do X you can’t do Y. You have the option to do none, some or all of those actions in any given order except when you unload because then the turn is over.

Those who wrote the rules must write that list of actions in one order or other so I see this just as a list of options for the trn with no particular order. If they had written it “A trn can move 1 or 2 sz, pick up cargo and unload cargo all in the same move.” would you really have played it that way? If you read that list by the letter then all the trn can do IS pick up/move 1-2 steps/unload and NOTHING ELSE!

However the second statement (even in bold to make it obvious) makes this clear that this IS NOT the intention of those who wrote the rules. Here they say that you can pick up cargo whenever you like during your turn (BTW, here they use OR again when it should be AND as well as they do on page 21 “either load OR unload” because you can pick up 1 inf, move, pick up one more) and not just at the start before you move as the list implies. That clarification wasn’t needed for unload (they thought that but boy how wrong they where) because it ends the turn for the trn so obviously unload (if it happens) will always be done last in the turn.

So where is all this rambling heading at? My point is that you read the rules wrong if you think those actions for the trn is stated in some particular order. So the conclusion is that IT IS FULLY LEGAL TO MOVE/MOVE/LOAD/UNLOAD in Non-Combat as well.

Wisdom! 8)
Please, register! :)
We need a member who can get to the point with sources. :o

I suggest you register as “A Wise Guy.”
8) :wink:

OK, I took you on your word ;)

Well! I’m disappointed in you. :cry: If not “A Wise Guy” you could have at least made it “The Wise Guy.”

Oh, … :roll:
Nevermind.

Welcome aboard…
…or is it ‘Welcome afora!’ ? :D

:D
Maybe I miss some subtle difference in Wise Guy, The Wise Guy and A Wise Guy but now I stuck with what I got.

I will search through this forum and see if I can close some more cans of worms :wink:

Tank U berry muck! (for your assistance :) .)

Oh, a wise guy, eh? (Comprende?)

Nyuk, nyuk! :P

@BigBlocky:

**Non-Combat Movement
Page 21: Empty transports or transports loaded with cargo can be moved to friendly coastal territories to either load or unload
Thus the Brits could only{my italics} move their transports in to load.

hmm surely those warships in that SZ, which have NOT been engaged in combat can move up with the trannies :)

could be that you weren’t claiming this… but im no native English speaker**

@Anonymous:

From the rules page 16…
So what can a trn do during non-combat?

1. It can pick up cargo
2. It can move
3. It can unload (ends the turn)…

Since when do the rules of combat moves play a role for non-combat movement?
With the same logic, you could invade empty enemy territories in NC.
Look at page 21 for NC movement of transports.

Since…ehh…ALWAYS!
The movement section described under each unit in the Combat movement chapter is one and the same used in non-combat movement. All units move the same in both phases the only difference is where they can move to.

@Wise:

…the only difference is where they can move to.

Wait! Are you saying that my loaded transports can be sunk in a sea zone containing no enemy units?

“My moma! All is lost!” - A famous Italian Admiral after Italy entered WWII

@Wise:

The movement section described under each unit in the Combat movement chapter is one and the same used in non-combat movement. All units move the same in both phases the only difference is where they can move to.

Not true. I propose to read page 21.
Another example why your above claim is not right: Any plane can “stay in the air” after Combat move, but not after NC. … a weaker example than page 21 though.

@El Jefe: where do you read in the “How They Move” section on p. 16 that they can be sunk at all?

@F_alk: air has a MUST-MOVE EXCEPTION on p. 21 but still they move in the same way in NC as in C, i.e. 4 steps and so on…

If you just read p. 21 then there isn’t enough info on that page to cover how ANY unit move in NC so how do you solve that then if you think p.12 to 17 is just for combat? Of course you read each “How They Move”-section for each unit and apply it in NC as well. You can’t just pick a line here and there and say that this is for Combat only but that is for NC as well, either all or nothing!

@Wise:

@F_alk: air has a… EXCEPTION on p. 21 …

If you just read p. 21 then there isn’t enough info on that page to cover how ANY unit move in NC so how do you solve that then if you think p.12 to 17 is just for combat? Of course you read each “How They Move”-section for each unit and apply it in NC as well. You can’t just pick a line here and there and say that this is for Combat only but that is for NC as well, either all or nothing!

Absolutely true.
I take the rules for Combat movement, apply them onto Combat move.
I take the modifications and exceptions written down in NC movement rules, and apply the “Combat move rules modified by the NC movement rules” to the NC move.
I don’t apply the pure Combat move rules to NC, and i don’t apply the modified rules to Combat moves.